What are the hard lumps in my muscles?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by suz9601, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. suz9601

    suz9601 Member

    I feel lots of big lumps on top of my muscles, especially on my upper arms. What is this? I know Dr St Amand thinks it is phosphates, but are there any other ideas? I did the Guai protocol for a year and a half w/o improvement in my symptoms. These lumps are very very painful.
  2. judywhit

    judywhit New Member

    I have the lumps too- exactly where you said yours our on the top of my arm just belwo my elbow. Also my calves (you would think that I was buff but they are hard knots!)

    they are fibro knots plain and simple. why we have them is curious. I rub the blue emu gel into my knots and take a knob type messager and try to message them out. sometimes they go down other times they swell and thats when I am coming into a flair. hate this crap!
  3. JerseySue

    JerseySue New Member

    I have been going to physical therapy for a few weeks. The therapist does a massage, manual traction, stuff like that. The one therapist was working on my back and hips (reason I am there) and she said I have alot of knots in those areas. She got a couple to release. It didn't hurt. I make sure I drink lots of water afterwards. So far though, it isn't a permanent solution, as they come back. GRRRRRRR.

    Wish there was something that was more stable as far as relief. The pt helps a little, plus it's nice to be pampered a little. Too bad its only for a short time.
    Gentle Hugs Sue
  4. jole

    jole Member

    Don't know what they are, but I get them too, and yes, they are very painful. Mine are on my biceps and also on my thighs, making the tops of my legs feel like an old washboard.

    They are always there during a flare, and will sometimes go away during a good spell. It feels like cords across my thighs, and double muscles in my biceps....weird!!

    Friends -
  5. sharon309

    sharon309 New Member

    I get them too, I did not know they went with fibro untill I saw this.I have them on my arms and legs and they do hurt and swell sometimes.I hate to know others have them but at the same time I am glad to know what it is.
  6. moxiepup

    moxiepup New Member

    I just got these a couple of months ago, I have one one each arm on my upper arm I guess Biceps.

    I've tried ice and heat and rubbing them away they don't move and they don't shrink and they hurt!!!

    What the heck are they?? anybody know??


  7. lovethesun

    lovethesun New Member

    even if they don't come out,just to get circuletionn in those ares.If I catch them small enough,I can sometimes rub them out before they create a chain reaction.I don't know quite how to explain it,but I have a book by Dr.Daniel Wallace that talks about those "taut bands" releasing "Substance P" and crating a chain reaction.This is a super simplified explaination.The whole front of the book is technical,but it does hold a lot of good info.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/17/2005]
  8. suz9601

    suz9601 Member

    Thanks for the replies, I knew I wasn't alone w/these hard lumps. Too bad we dont know what they are...
  9. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    and the release of substance P. I've certainly heard of elevated substance P in the spinal fluid of FM sufferers, and I've heard of the theory of phosphate lumps, but not of a relation between the two.

    I've just recently started to notice some odd lumps myself. The first I only noticed becasue it was a bit of a sore spot when I was putting on or taking off a sock near my left ankle. I wouldn't have noticed it otherwise. So I gently rubbed it, to gage the size, it wasn't really hard, more like firm and slightly raised. And not a bruise (I used to bruise ultra easy, but zinc helped that). I was going to show it to my doc, but it's gone now. Last night when I saw this post, I noticed something similar near my left knee, so I rubbed it more and I can barely tell where it ws today. If it wasn't for a slight tenderness when rubbed, I wouldn't be able to find it.

  10. bevfal

    bevfal New Member

    Those are Fibro knots-I have them in my upper back,upper arms,chest etc. Painful as hell unless you can work them out. You can try pressing on them as hard as you can (if you can stand the pain) cause sometimes doing that will relax & release them but unfortunately they do come back.
    Sorry I couldn't give you better news!
  11. Huggabugg123

    Huggabugg123 New Member

    I did some reserach to try to figure out what these knots are as well. Here is the information that I found on the rosenbaumrehab website. If you do a search for muscle knots you will get the link or URL.

    One important event, which occurs early after an injury, is muscle spasm. This feels like tightness in the muscles in the area, and is sometimes, but not always, painful. Treatment of the spasm is significant in the overall treatment of the problem. This is because after an initial period, if the basic injury is not fixed, the spasm forms muscle knots. Usually this happens about two weeks after the initial injury. These knots are painful, and become part of the problem. Sometimes, the pain from the muscle knots is the reason why someone first goes to get help with the problem.

    What Are Muscle Knots?
    Muscle knots are abnormal areas within the muscle, which cause pain. The medical term for the muscle knots is myofascial trigger points. We do not know everything about what they are. When doctors have biopsied (cut a piece out of) muscle knots, some abnormal protein deposits seem to be present. Some treating practitioners believe that there is excessive connective tissue in these areas, but there is little evidence in the (unfortunately few) studies that have been done to support the idea of excess connective tissue. There is a two volume medical textbook entirely about muscle knots:

    Simons, David G., Travell, Janet G., Simons, Lois S. (1999) Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual. Lippincott Williams & Wilkins: Atlanta, GA

    There is a textbook because muscle knots are the source of a large amount of pain and misery, and treating them is important.

    Why Muscle Knots Form
    The knots form because the spasm keeps the muscle continuously "on". Normally, even when doing heavy lifting, no muscle is working continuously. Instead, as the body moves in normal activities, different muscles cycle on and off. The spasm makes the muscle work continuously, around the clock. The muscles are not designed for this continuous work. After some amount of time the muscle overloads and forms these knots. Treating spasm helps reduce this problem. Spasm occurs after other kinds of injuries, but muscle knots only become a problem when the source of the pain doesn't go away quickly. This happens most often (but not only) with injuries to the neck and back.

    How Are Muscle Knots Treated?
    There are several methods to treat muscle knots. Choosing among them is the job of the health-care practitioner who is working most closely with you. As discussed on the exercise page, exercise is an important method to help with the muscle knots. Often, exercise can be a supplement to the other treatments discussed. Massage therapy is a helpful treatment for the muscle knots. Therapeutic massage of this type can be uncomfortable when it is being done, but the patient is expected to feel better later. Treatment in the category called "modality", heat, cold, ultrasound, and electrical stimulation, as applied by a physical therapist or chiropractor, can help with muscle knots. Injections into the muscle knots, called trigger point injections, are another method of treatment. Acupuncture can have an impact on these areas also.

    Huggabugg123<~ hope this information is helpful
  12. TXFMmom

    TXFMmom New Member

    Those are usually part of the trigger process, which knots up and gets to the point where it feels like a hard, even raised hump.

    It can hurt when one tries to get them to resolve.

    I had them particularly bad on my arms, arising from my neck involvement. Had my facet joints in my cervical vertebrae injected and it has helped, honey!!!!!!!

    Otherwise, one can get local anesthetics injected into the trigger and they will relax for a while.
  13. JerseySue

    JerseySue New Member

    Today I went to physical therapy, I told the therapist that my left outer hip was hurting alot. She checked it out and said it appeared swollen and tender to her. So I did the heat, elect. stim., massage-she was gentle since I was in alot of pain, stretching exercises, and then cold packs.
    They also treat my lower back too.

    Well, I was ok for a little while, and then ever since my lower back has been killing me. I have a few especially large knots on the right side. It almost feels like it is pressing on the nerve causing pain.

    I took my baclofen and ultracet and did a nice Epsom soak in the tub. I really hate this. I wish they would go away or lessen. I don't go back to PT till Thursday.

    Does anyone know why if knots are caused by spasms, what is causing the spasms in us? I am trying to find something that will help them. Thanks
    Gentle Hugs Sue
  14. soosan

    soosan New Member

    I had trigger points before fibromyalgia hit...I bought both volumes of Drs. Travel and Simons book and also a do it yourself manual by a man named Davies...I bought a back knobber (from relax the back store) and learned how to release them...it hurts but over time you can smooth them out...ugh....otherwise I am a cement block...hope this helps

    I also find that after doing this self massage I am better able to stretch the muscle...ugh, again....Soosan
  15. fwm

    fwm New Member

    Wow, the things I'm learning here! You all are amazing. I thought these hard lumps I have ...well, I just couldn't explain what they were. I'm sorry for all who have them, but at the same time I'm relieved to know I'm not the only one who has those. Wow.
  16. workerb

    workerb New Member

    are concentrated in my upper-mid back area and chest/breast area. No one is allowed (ever!) to touch, message my back. I cannot handle it. Heat/cold make it worse. Just leave mine alone, or the area swells and the pain is amplified. My knots "move around", they stay in the central area, but will "migrate" around my back/chest.

    I've been to a chiropractor MANY years, and they know me as an "adjustment only", no message. Mine cannot be broken up with all the message in the world. You wouldn't believe the cremes/messagers I've purchased. I've been dealing with this for a long time, and my best solution for me, is leave it alone or I will pay dearly (you think it hurts NOW....just wait till you get messaged)
    But that's just my personal experience. Dr. Pellegrino had asked if I was interested in trigger point injections. Hell no!! Just get out 40 needles, cause I have a lot of em! And next week I'll be back, cause more will be present 2 inches away from where you previously injected!!

    (can't tell I have strong feelings about this, can you! : )
  17. lady_bug_moon

    lady_bug_moon New Member

    does anyone have them in there hands? i got a knot in my hand but everyone things a cysts or something. Have not been to the dr. yet waiting on insurance.
  18. lilaclover30

    lilaclover30 New Member

    I began to notice them on both forearms and they hurt. Pressing on one sent pain somewhere else. My dentist said they were trigger points. But when I talked to my Dr., he said no, they were fatty tumors!!!! I did not believe him at all as hubby has a few and he said they do not hurt. A blood pressure cuff sure hurts!

    I have them just below elbows and also one on each side of thigh that really hurts. There may be more but I don't investigate - hurts too much.

    I have developed OA in wrists and hands but have had a gangolin appear in middle of one of big wrist joint. Same Dr. just looked at it and turned away. Bout ready to change Dr.

    At least we know that were are not weird, someone has the same thing.

    Gentle hugs
  19. LittleBluestem

    LittleBluestem New Member

    As Huggabugg123 pointed out, there is a two volume medical text just about myofascial trigger points. There are also physical therapist and massage therapist specially trained in myofascial release therapy to deal with them. Massage just irritates them.

    Clarkie, referred pain (sending pain somewhere else when pressed) is typical of trigger points. I think you dentist knows more than your dr does.
  20. Nanny2

    Nanny2 New Member

    Here I sit-another nite of not being able to sleep. Those "knots" are so bad that it is impossible to lie on either side. I am so frustrated with this disease. It is taking so much of my life away. I was diagnosed 16 years ago, so I pretty much try to keep going, but WOW when I have a flare forget it !!!!!It is nice to have "friends" to chat with. Thank you all.