What do you take for alpha intrusion or zero rem sleep?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by intensemom, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

    HI Friends!

    I had a sleep study last night. The tech. told me this morning that I had alpha intrusion and therefore not enough delta or REM sleep? He confirmed what I suspected.

    I've already tried Xyrem...can't take it. What else do dr's prescribe for this...and what combinations?

    what had worked for you?

  2. PVLady

    PVLady New Member

  3. pawprints

    pawprints New Member

    Plus have the alpha intrusion. I would like to know about other options as well.

    Maybe Lunesta?
  4. sally2142

    sally2142 New Member

    [This Message was Edited on 03/26/2006]
  5. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    I have alpha intrusion and I take Doxepin and Klonopin as well. For a while I did fine and then I was having trouble getting to sleep. Now I have added 1/4to 1/2 of Imovane (similar to Lunesta in Canada) and I'm doing well sleep wise.

  6. spiritsky

    spiritsky Member

    Theanine helps to increase the length of Delta sleep. I used to take it but don't need it anymore.

    Also, Trypophan, and GABA are great for sleep and try Ashwagandha.

    Right now I'm getting much better sleep by taking:

    1) 1000mg Tryptophan 2 hrs before bed (increases seratonin)
    2) 1000mg Ashwagandha 2 hours before bed (blocks cortisol)

    3) 500mg GABA at bedtime (blocks GABA receptors)
    4) 1mg Melatonin at bedtime.

  7. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

    Eileen and everyone else, too,

    I started out on Xyrem right after Christmas. I got a free month trial. The starting dose was 4.5 ml. 2 times per night. It worked for a few days...8 hrs of sleep. Then it started backing off until I was only getting 6 hrs. of sleep. The doctor bumped me up to 6 ml, then 7 and finally 9ml. but the same scenario happened every time...it would lose effectiveness. 9 ml. is the maximum dose so I had to stop there..at least I was getting 6 hr.s of good sleep..but then I started feeling tired and depressed during the day. Then I started to lose my appetite and eventually couldn't eat anything. I went off the xyrem. I ended up on Prozac and diazepam. I was having terrible anxiety about how I was going to sleep without the xyrem. So I ended up scheduling the sleep study. But even though I now know what the problem is...it's like "can they even treat it?"

    I have found so far that Lunesta helps the most. I have read that other people have had luck with combinations of meds....like gabatril, trazadone and others. I can't wait to hear what the doc. says. BTW, there is evidence that once your hormones are balanced that your sleep will be restored. Mine aren't balanced yet...everything is still low!!!(I go to FCC in Detroit}

    Fibrohugs to you all!
  8. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

  9. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

  10. abbylee

    abbylee New Member

    I had to play with the doses but eventually I was able to work with it.

    I don't know what others take, but probably a combination of other sleep meds.

    It's delta (deep) sleep that is affected by alpha intrusion. Too much REM too quickly (within 10 or so minutes of going to sleep) is usually Narcolepsy.

    Xyrem is GHB, so if you can't take the liquid, maybe the shots will work for you.

    I have had fms since I was 12 (I'm 55 now), and have tried just about everything else. I'm sure they are working with Xyrem to make it in a way that more can use it, or at least make it work with one dose instead of two.

    I also take Oxycotin and Oxycodone for pain, even with the Xyrem. (It's supposed to help with pain and EDS.)
  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I am trying to wean off the Klonopin slowly, if I can. If I cannot without the symptoms of seizure returning, I will go back on it as I figure I still need it. Dr. Cheney says that he has never seen a patient have a problem weaning off when healing is sufficient that it is no longer needed. I am supplementing with melatonin as I wean off. I took half a tablet of the melatonin last night and slept really well. Only problem is that I felt a bit groggy for half an hour and woke later than I like. Tonight, I'll only take 1/4 of a tablet. There are all kinds of contraindications mentioned with the melatonin. It is a hormone.

    I have a set of CD's I bought at B&N which use sound waves and meditation to increase brain waves. There is one for delta waves. If I take the time to listen to it before bedtime, it does help me sleep better.

    Good luck.

    Love, Mikie
  12. caroleye

    caroleye New Member

    I'm balancing my alpha waves w/neurofeedback. Then about a week ago, I stopped reaching for my Klonopin, which I had taken for a good 10 years. First used it to get me to sleep; then in the middle of the night after the 4 hour wakeup call. No side effects. Now I'm just going to use a bit of it for anxiety, gastritis or body aches..

    Now I'm taking Cal/mag, ZMA, Calms Forte for sleep onset (works well); & 4 hours later take Cal/mag, Calms Forte & Dalmane RX.

    Know I still need deeper sleep; but have more brainwave tx to complete my profile.

    Frustrating the years of trial 'n errors!!


  13. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The ZMA works best if calcium is not taken with it. Calcium binds with magnesium so there is less to help with muscle repair during sleep.

    I'm glad you were able to wean off the Klonopin. I am going to try to do it very slowly. I'm using the melatonin to help me do it.

    Love, Mikie
  14. pawprints

    pawprints New Member

    As far as natural supplements, I remember Elsa posting the Trytophan actually interfered with deep sleep. Therefore, I stopped taking that. Does anyone know about this?

    I am on the Xyrem b/c of my sleep study but wake up very, very anxious. Did anyone else have this problem?

    I am still on Klonopin and trying different meds along with it for now.

    Thanks for the help.
  15. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

    The overwhelming anxiety....that I never had before...is most of the reason I went off of xyrem.

    I hope it continues to work for you. I know they(the people who make it) are trying to make it more user friendly. Which of course will just make it more expensive!

    AHHH! Frustrating!

  16. pawprints

    pawprints New Member

    I am glad to hear from you about the anxiety. Not glad you had it but glad I am not alone. My doctor, the sleep specialist, told me out of all the people he treated, I was the only one with that problem.

    My other doctor, the FFC, told me to increase the dose...but for me the anxiety just gets worse. So no it is not working for me unless I want to go in a funny farm during the day.

    Have you tried Nuerontin? The sleep doc said that or Lyrica could help with the problem.

    I am so sick of all the drug side effects that doctors seem to think happen to no one else. I just feel "bad" wired all day long...not like having good energy to get stuff done. Plus I can't think when I get like that. Is this what you were feeling on the Xyrem?
  17. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

    I was on Xyrem for about 7 weeks. The first 2 weeks I felt no different. Then I felt really good for about a month. I was having a lot of energy....not taking naps during the day...then the last 2 weeks of it I started bottoming out...feeling anxious and depressed and tired. I lost my appetite. Then it hit me almost overnite...I was anxious, couldn't eat a thing, couldn't focus on anything except my sleep issue. I just knew it was the xyrem, at least at the 9 ml. dose! Maybe I could've stayed on a lower dose; but I wouldn't have gotten as much sleep and didn't want to risk feeling that way again...it was that bad. Another thing I did not like about xyrem is after I woke up for the day usually at 5 am or 6am there was no way I could go back to sleep or even doze. Really a bummer on the weekend!
    I just read a post from someone saying they're on Seroquel or something like that. Look for the post...the name is in the title.

  18. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

  19. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Go online. I think you can buy from B&N online but if not, Amazon usually has the same things. There are several sets of CD's out there which use sound vibrations to induce brain waves. They cost about $30 for the set.

    Love, Mikie
  20. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The set I bought about five years ago is "Brainwave Journey" by Dr. Jeffrey Thompson and Owen Morrison. There are four CD's in the set. Each CD starts with a meditation. The voice fades in and out and if you try to figure out what it is saying, you get distracted. Everything is repeated, so if you don't understand it at first, you will hear it more clearly later on. The idea is to relax and not try too hard. There are different sound vibrations going on in the background and foregound all the time. These sound vibrations "awaken" different parts of the brain to induce certain brain waves. After the meditation, there is a continuation of sounds which you can listen to if you want to continue the session.

    According to the info on this set, using sound vibrations to induce brain waves is a real science. I love these CD's and should take the time to listen to them more often.

    Love, Mikie