Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by namow, Jun 1, 2006.
Sorry, but I don't know what you mean when you talk about herxing...
Inquiring minds want to know.....
Would loke to know. I can't make heads or tails out of the symptoms people list.
I am very curious about it
Need some answers PLEASEEEEEE!
Search this board for 'herxing' you will get a lot of very good information from the members.
Haylecole- ?? what was your reply about? don't get it and how it relates to herxing? Herxing is very real, but I'm not sure of your comments.
namow- search on "herxing"- we all suffer from it.
Anyone give the definition of herxing on here?
I see it all the time and searching just tells you that they are herxing from xyz. So what is the true definition? Does anyone know?
As far as the comment above it was very clear. She said it is the belief of getting sicker before you get better.
But that was her thought on it.
We are asking for those that are Herxing for a possible definition not what makes them "herx"
The herxheimer effect (officially called "Jarish-Herxheimer reaction") was first seen when penicillin was given to syphilis patients - syphilis is a spirochete as is Lyme, by the way. Patients got worse initially - symptoms exacerbated- from the die-off of the spirochetes and/or toxins.
Here is a part of what the roadback foundation says - this was written specifically about treatment of rheumatoid arthritis/mycoplasma in particular but the same is true of treating other infections such as Lyme, its co infections etc:
The Jarisch-Herxheimer, or Herxheimer reaction, (otherwise known as herxing or herx for short) was named for the German dermatologist, Karl Herxheimer (1844-1947).
Dorlands Medical Dictionary refers to the Herxheimer reaction as a transient, short-term, immunological reaction commonly seen following antibiotic treatment of early and later stage [infectious] diseases which [may be] manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgias (muscle pain), and exacerbations of cutaneous lesions.
The reaction has been attributed to liberation of endotoxins-like substances or of antigens (a substance which causes an immune reaction) from the killed or dying microorganisms.
A TRANSIENT SHORT-TERM, IMMUNOLOGICAL REACTION
What does this mean in layman's terms? The Herxheimer flare reaction may be the first indication that the antibiotic is reaching its target and is therefore considered a good sign.
In his original book, The Road Back, the late Thomas McPherson Brown, MD noted that the reaction caused a temporary worsening of symptoms.
The amount of medication may be directly related to the intensity of the flare. Medications which have no effect on mycoplasma (or other microbes) do not provoke this reaction nor do these medications generally have a favorable long-term effect on the disease.
Unlike the RA (or FM) flare, which can last for weeks or even months, the Herxheimer flare reaction is often of short duration.
Large doses of antibiotics may initially caused a worsening or flare reaction in many of the ... diseases. According to Dr. Brown, when the resulting released toxins go to the joints, joint pain is the result; when they go to the brain, depression may result.
Dr. Brown found the Herxheimer effect showed a number of important principles at work. It demonstrated that the disease was a hypersensitive reaction, not to the drug itself, but to the toxins that a microbe creates in response to the drug's presence. And, it opened the way to a chemical attack (with medications) ... "
In my experience and my son's, it feels like a giant case of the flu...
all the best,
Can someone out there going through "herxing" explain the exact symptoms that tells you that you are herxing?
I really can't get it. Also, how do you know you are herxing and is not something that you are taking making you sick?
in my opinion is , overall, a quack. itself ; despite what Quackwatch wants to say... much of what they say is not true - not all, but much, sadly!
Herxing is very real, and documented to happen when certain diseases are treated. Go look on medline etc - it would not be defined in medical dictionaries if not real, or at least listed as 'not real'.
It is very real,
Thank you for your responses.
Victoria, thank you so much, it is much clearer to me what this herxing is all about!
you might want to read Mikie's posts in particulr, she has mycoplasma, and regularly pulses meds.... she just posted about this actually.
"TFs working -herxing" is the title of her post.
All the best,
[This Message was Edited on 06/02/2006]
I still don't get it.
Is what you are trying to say is that the meds make one sicker?
Well done Victoria. I'm sorry that I did not properly address the question as I should have - I've been a bit off lately.
There really is a lot of good information on this board once you query. I herx everytime I up the dose of my medicine. Ick is right!! :<
It's the body's reactions to treatments which kill off pathogens. When one takes anything designed to kill off pathogens, but it herbal, electrical, or meds, the pathogens become excited and this causes the immune system to sit up and take notice. The immune system reacts just like when one gets a cold virus. It can cause a fever in the body, one can have a sore throat and swollen lymph nodes, one can feel clamy, and one can have aches and pains. This is the first half of what can happen and I call it the immune response. It can be quite uncomfortable. Allergic reactions to meds usually do not produce these symptoms. The immune reaction feels like having the flu.
When the meds, treatments, supplements or even the body's own immune system, kill off more pathogens than the body can excrete, the dead pathogens turn toxic and the body will purge them. This is the Herx. The body will purge the toxins through vomiting, sweating, and/or diarrhea. The hallmark of the Herx is the odor of death in the sweat and stool. It is unmistakeable.
Having been on various treatments to kill chronic viral and bacterial infections for the last four years, I have Herxed many, many times. I am just recovering from a Herx from pulsing my transfer factors. All day yesterday was spent in the bathroom. My sweat was worse than a laborer paving the highway at noon in August in Death Valley. It was worse than the smell of two rats making love in a wool sock in a burning meth house. You get the idea
People have asked me over the years whether my Herxing is just a reaction to the meds or the usual IBS type stomach problems many of us have. I used to have IBS (strangely enough, it went away when I was on the Doxycycline). Herxing is not IBS and it isn't a reaction to the meds. It's a real condition which occurs when one kills off massive amounts of pathogens. It's evidence to me that my treatments are working to kill off my infections. I always feel better after I Herx and I am very slowly making progress with my health overall.
Mike thank you for your post You explained it very well.
I get it now
It's just that docs never explain Herxing when they give drugs and it's a foreign concept to many of us. Also, it's a complex condition which depends on one's understanding of the interaction between our immune systems, drugs, and pathogens.
Glad this helped.
I love to search for your posts because I have learned so much from you! I will probably never be able to repay you, but I know that most of us on the board agree that you are a huge asset to the team!
You should get paid for all of your work! Wouldn't that be great, to be employed by the board! Why not, right.
You are especially in my prayers- I am very impressed by all of your hard work to find a better life for yourself. Keep going, I know you will succeed.
I have a lump in my throat from your kindness. I don't expect any return for my participation in this board, but your post meant more to me than money ever could.
Most of us who have found things which help are anxious to share in hopes that they will help others. What I have found is that it's really hard work and takes a lot of time just to make a little progress. Still, I think knowing that will be helpful for others so that they aren't disappointed when progress takes so much longer than we would hope. Also, sometimes, it has to get worse before it can get better.
God bless you and thank you again for your kindness.
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