What Is the Importance of Sleep? Really.....

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by NyroFan, Jan 13, 2007.

  1. NyroFan

    NyroFan New Member

    Hello all and of course all (or not) are as well as possible.

    I have talked to "net doctors' and they insist that the cure to FMS/CFS is a decent night's sleep.

    Yes, I believe it, but hey:

    what time do you get to bed?
    how long does it take to fall asleep?
    do you get a full night or partial?
    any physical symtomss from lack of sleep
    What works better: prescriptions or rest.?

    and on an on.

    Could you please give me a lead.?

    nyrofan
  2. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Sleep is when your body makes human growth hormone needed for repairs. It makes it during deep sleep like between 11 and 1. Get to sleep by 9 or 10 if you can. I usually fall asleep between 9 and 10 now since I've got my diet on track and have been taking a million supplements. Sleep is no longer an issue for me. I used to have a hard time with it. Now I get insomnia very infrequently.

    If I don't sleep good, it affects my day; I'll be more fatigued for the rest of it and may even need a nap.

    5 htp used to work really well at getting me sleepy but it used to dehydrate me badly. I'd wake up with a full bladder and need to drink a glass of water a couple of times during the night.

    I'm thinking of getting some HGH shots. It's supposed to work miracles in some people, though others have crashed miserably. Cheney says if you do a small enough dose like .2 mg once a week, most people won't crash. Here's what else he says about it:

    "There are four major dynamic hormones. The most dynamic hormone in your body is growth hormone. It's important in controlling basic protein synthesis, and in augmenting protein synthesis under certain conditions, such as exercise, hypoglycemia [low blood sugar], and Phase IV sleep. We think increased growth hormone production during deep sleep is a designed upregulation increase] of liver protein synthesis so you get maximum detoxification at 3:00 a.m. [Liver enzymes, which are proteins, are necessary to neutralize toxins and remove them from the body.] The liver has the highest protein synthesis rate in the body, and you have to get the protein synthesis augmentation around midnight to get maximum detoxification, at 3:00 [if you live on a normal schedule]. If you do not have dynamic growth hormone response, then the following terrible things happen: You lose your protein synthesis; what that means in a big way is that you can no longer heal, and you can no longer get well, you cannot exercise, and you cannot detoxify. And you cannot handle hypoglycemia. [Your blood sugar can fall to levels that make it both physical and mental functioning very difficult, and your body does not respond by increasing blood sugar to normal levels.]"

    And this:

    "But there's another thing that happens, that's called the neurotoxic state. At every point along the red line, all the way up to and including the normal awake state, the neuron is firing faster than it can detoxify the metabolic waste it's creating, from this rapid de-polarization [electrical activity]. So the toxins are increasing in the neuron, and how do you get rid of those toxins? At night, you enter the sleep cycle, which is the healing state, all along the blue line. At that point, the neuron is firing so slowly that you can re-direct energy reserves to the act of detoxification, because you don't have to use all your energy reserves to fire that neuron. The greatest healing state is the coma state. And there are actually whole books written on the healing properties of coma. I've often thought that what we should do is hire about six anesthesiologists, get six beds, and put all the CFIDS patients in coma for about a week or two, and when we bring them back, they're going to be a lot better. That has actually happened twice in my twelve years with this illness. Two patients ended up in comas unrelated to CFIDS and had dramatic clinical improvement after a week in coma, because coma is the ultimate healing state. Very deep sleep is also healing; deep sleep is healing; meditation is healing, but the normal optimal awake, alert state is actually slightly neurotoxic.

    But CFIDS patients are sitting down here [in the injury state]. So what you have to do, in the daytime, you have to move them from the injury state to the normal awake state so that they think better and are less toxic, and at night, you have to move them into the healing state. And how do you do that? It's a simple matter of receptor manipulation. You block the NMDA receptor or you stimulate the GABA receptor, and best of all, you do both. Now isn't it interesting that magnesium is probably the very best NMDA receptor blocker, and guess who is deficient in magnesium? People with CFIDS. So the first and best drug for this whole thing, interestingly, is magnesium. It is also the drug of choice for seizures, because it pushes you instantly toward the healing state. CFIDS patients are already deficient, and that must be addressed. If you don't address that, then you're rowing upstream with anything else you do. It's a very powerful idea."

    If you want to read his entire enlightening article about cfs and what to do about it, here it is:

    http://membres.lycos.fr/chrisdel2/association/cheney/cheneyII3.html

    Everybody should read this. It's very long and full of details and explanations and if I hadn't read it, I'd still be in bed. He lists all your symptoms, why you have them and recommends drugs AND supplements you can take for each individual symptom.

    Why don't we open up the Coma Hotel? Sounds good to me, I'm there!

    karen
  3. KelB

    KelB New Member

    Proper sleep isn't a "cure" (bless 'em!), but I cracked it and it really helped.

    I was going to bed (exhausted) around 10pm and I'd usually drop off about 2am. I'd have dreadful nightmares and keep waking up in a panic. By around 6am, I was wide awake and couldn't get back to sleep - even more tired than when I went to bed. A few weeks of that would drop a horse!

    I think the theory with CFS, is that you never get into the truly deep restful sleep (where the dreams stop), which is the time that your body performs all of the "repairs" from the previous day. So it just turns into a vicious circle. No sleep, more tired, no sleep, even more tired etc.

    I knocked it into shape gradually over a few months with pre-emptive rests in the daytime (apparently you can't sleep properly at night if you get over-tired during the day - bizarre huh?) and sleep hygiene techniques.

    I was prescribed a low-dose anti-depressant which I took for a month. It helped me get to sleep faster when I went to bed, but I was still very restless during the night and woke up just as early. My Occ Therapist said that ADs knock you out a bit, but don't help with the quality of sleep. I gave them up in favour of learning to do it without drugs and getting better results.

    As I said, this wasn't a cure for CFS, but getting a few hours of truly restful sleep each night really did make a difference for me.
  4. llama

    llama New Member

    Hi,

    In answer to your questions:

    1. I try to get in bed by 1:30AM

    2. It takes me 2 to 3 hours to fall asleep.

    3. Once I fall asleep, I'm practically in a coma. Will pretty much sleep 10 to 12 hrs.(maybe 2 potty breaks). If I try to decrease the amt. of sleep, I simply cannot function. Can't hardly move, irritable, and within an hour or so of waking up will involuntarily fall back to sleep!

    4. I basically get thrown into a mini-flare and unless I get the sleep I need the Flare becomes full-blown( nausea, headache, sore/stiff/achy, malaise)

    5. I need both...have to take something to help fall asleep
    (Klonopin, Flexeril, and Melatonin) and it still takes me a long time to fall asleep.

    When I had a sleep study done, it showed mild apnea, but the sleep disorder doc, said I also don't get stage 3 and 4 sleep levels. To add to this, about once per minute, I have like a startle reflex and almost wake-up (I'm not aware of this). Doc. said basically I have "one foot in sleep and the other outside of sleep all night long."

    Good post.....take care............Jill..........