What kills mycoplasmas besides antibiotics?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by aryiella, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    I've been trying to read up on how mycoplasmas may be part of the problem with our DD and how a lot of protocols involve long-term use of antibiotics. Frankly, I don't think I want to go that route - I don't want antibiotics in my system for that long period of time, then I have to convince a physician for it anyways. I don't know that I have mycoplasmas, but I understand that most likely a majority of us do. Is there anything else out there supplement-wise that has been shown (or believed) to kill the mycoplasmas? Olive Leaf? Transfer Factor? I'm lost amongst all the info.

    Also, is it a "waste of time" to take supplements for energy, inflammation, etc, if the mycoplasmas are still there? I've tried so many supplements over the years and nothing helped so I'm thinking that could be why.

    Thank you!
    Holly
  2. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

  3. spacee

    spacee Member

    Mycoplus Transfer Factor targets alot of mycoplasms. Rich Carson who started Prohealth takes it. I have taken it since I heard he had success with it and it helps me ALOT.

    It costs about $160 for 30 capsules and a person usually takes one a day. Some people start out by opening the capsule and scooping out a little bit and putting it under their tongue.

    That way if they have a strong reaction to the pathogens being targeted, it won't be so bad and then they build up to the whole capsule.

    To try to keep the costs down, I won't take it for a week or I will skip days. That is actually a good thing to do...it keeps the pathogens guessing.

    It is sold here at Prohealth...use their 800#. It is not listed here or in their magalog. I don't know why.

    Hopes that helps,

    Spacee
  4. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    I will keep it in mind, but at $160 for 30 caps I'll go broke! :(

    Mikie - if you see this, I have read a lot of your posts and notice you are in SW FL. I am in Clearwater. Are you near me? If so any Dr recommendations?? I just started seeing a holistic MD, but I'm not sure if he knows anything about antibiotic therapy or if he'd be willing to try it. If there's nothing out there reasonably priced and "natural", I may have no choice.

    Holly

    PS: I also found info on the "Zapper", but don't think that would be enough on its own.
    [This Message was Edited on 09/13/2007]
  5. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Hi Holly,

    This is an older article from the Townsend Letter.

    I've not yet tried the non-drug stuff (hyssop etc.) that it mentions. I'm taking a short course of low dose doxy at the moment, and after one week and two capsules total (100 mg each) i've had the wind knocked out of me. It's definitely killing something....either mycoplasma or chlamydia pneumoniae, likely both.

    I'm thus very interested in this topic since I absolutely do not want to stay on antibiotics longer than I have to. Hopefully other people here will have further suggestions.

    Best, Lisa


    **

    Mycoplasma: Its hidden role in rheumatoid arthritis and other clinical syndromes - Quantum Medicine Update

    Paul Jr. Yanick
    Mycoplasma may serve as a cofactor that along with biological and/or chemical stressors can induce cytokines and other immune abnormalities found in rheumatoid arthritis (RA). The overuse of antibiotics has caused widespread bacterial resistance to antibiotics and has contributed to the development of new strains of disease that are not treatable with current antibiotics. These stealth infections pose a continuing threat to human health and may be implicated as cofactors in a number of clinical syndromes.

    Research has implicated certain mycoplasma species as a causative factor in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), RA and gulf war syndrome (GWS) (1-4) In one study, forty-nine of sixty RA subjects had evidence of mycoplasma infections that were documented by multiplex polymerase chain reaction (PCR). Unlike other lab tests which fail to detect mycoplasma, multiplex PCR assays allow for unmatched clinical accuracy in the identification and differentiation of mycoplasma species. Because RA, CFS, and GWS are characterized by overlapping symptoms, researchers are gathering more and more evidence that points to stealth infections as the missing link to effective treatment in these disorders.

    Rather than treating RA and other forms of arthritis with anti-inflammatory drugs that are poorly researched and not safe for long-term use, more clinical efforts need to be made in identifying stealth infections using multiplex PCR and quantum meridian stress measurement (QMSM) techniques. Since mycoplasma infections are found at significantly higher rates in RA, effective treatment should be aimed at immunomodulation therapies that help the body uncover and destroy stealth infections.

    Members of the genus mycoplasma lack cell walls, and like viruses, are capable of self-replication. Microplasma fermentans colonizes human mucosal tissues and under certain conditions can invade the host cells or fuse with CD4 cells, inducing the production of proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-6 and tumor necrosis factor alpha. (6-7) Indeed, the occurrence of mycoplasma and ureaplasma species in joint tissues of RA and other forms of arthritis provides convincing evidence that mycoplasma is a significant cofactor, among other stressors, that precipitates the symptomatology of RA. (8-12) Yet, just as it took decades for medicine to realize that helicobacter pylori caused peptic ulcers, there continues to be a lag time in the acceptable treatment of mycoplasma and stealth infections in clinical cases of arthritis. (13)

    If infection is a causative agent in arthritis, what constitutes effective treatment? In two independent, randomized trials, RA patients were treated with lOOmg of oral doxycycine or a placebo twice daily for 26 weeks. The results demonstrated a greater than 75% improvement in arthritic symptoms in patients taking the drug versus a placebo. (14,15)

    While doxycycline or minocycline may be life-saving in advanced cases of mycoplasma, solving the problem of infection requires more than the use of antibiotics. Furthermore, many microbes now defy antibiotics that once killed them. And, the use of antibiotics causes resistant microbes, viruses, or fungal infections to replicate, grow and multiply. In many cases, the overuse of antibiotics has resulted in the spread of hepatitis, cytomegalovirus, herpes viruses, parasites, and many other dreadful microbes.

    The lifestyles of patients with mycoplasma infection lay the foundation for opportunistic infections to flourish and conquer the body. Irradiated foods, genetically-modified foods, radiation, and chemical stressors trigger clusters of mutations that interfere with DNA stability and reduce the function and regeneratory capacity of lymphocytes. QMSA techniques provide a window into the body to quickly assess each individual's unique stress patterns between toxins, parasites, parasitic toxins, bacteria, mycoses, viruses and metabolism. Therefore, when stress is reduced, one may expect the immune system to function with greater efficiency.

    In RA patients, it is common for impregnated toxins and mutated proteins to congest and damage the body's lymph nodes causing a functional impairment in the immune system. This deposition of toxins extends itself into the joints and allows opportunistic infections to grow and flourish while continually damaging the immune system and extracellular matrix interface to the energetic system of healing. As such, cold photon scalar therapies, advanced detoxification protocols and immunomodulation therapies are necessary to reduce toxin and microbial stressors and to help the body regain a greater range of immunological functions.

    Reestablishing the Superhighway in Our Genes

    Genes send light/electrical signals to one another through a DNA information "superhighway." Biochemists are amazed at the distance over which these signals can travel. (16,17) Toxin deposits seem to limit the distance these signals can travel and/or stops these signals from reaching their destination, thereby causing a deficit in biocommunication. Many physicists feel that these toxins are "light scramblers" in that they cause chaos in the DNA's signaling system which includes the extracellular matrix and its interface with the human energy system.

    In RA patients, enhancing the immune system's ability to patrol, enforce, and attack invading microbes with greater operational complexity requires understanding the sub-molecular dynamics of DNA in the orchestration of the body's defense and repair routines. In other words, while we understand the negative repercussions of oxidative stress at the molecular level, it's equally important to understand how it reduces the repair capacity of DNA at the quantum level. Therefore, re-establishing quantum coherence -- a state of immune competence with adequate DNA repair enzymes -- may provide the best treatment in infectious disease.

    The best way to understand quantum coherence and DNA is to look at how it works in the salamander and pondworm. When a salamander loses a leg torn off by a predator, it simply regrows a new one. When a pondworm is chopped in half, each half regrows into a whole, complete worm. How does the worm's body know where to reassemble new organs when half of them are missing? These miraculous powers of healing are inherent in DNA.

    For humans, these genetic cascades of DNA-generated biophoton energies are the most powerful when we are embryos. Yet, as we grow older and enter the world our immune systems immediately engage in warfare against pathogens, chemicals, and other stressors. For some reason, over engaging our immune systems, has the effect of repressing healing networks within our DNA. Plausible evidence exists to support the idea that defining and eliminating these stressors may be the first step in uncovering the missing links to feats of regeneration found in species like the salamander or pondworm.

    These DNA-guided signals flow throughout the body with awe-inspiring speed. Stately simply, the magnitude of DNA's coherence, determines the course of our health. For example, when there is quantum coherence, the magnitude of inner healing is so gigantic that it renders even the best of minds helpless for exploring the endless boundaries of its power. Can we "click on" the genetic switches that power up our capacity to heal and regenerate? Unfortunately, more research is needed to answer this question. The problem is that most current scientific study of the human body delves deeply into the chemistry and molecular nature of cells with very little emphasis on how healing functions can be nourished, how they can be expanded, or how its faculties can be used more efficiently.

    During the past 80 years of our existence these healing powers have been shrouded behind ignorance and myths, or principles held sacred by modern medicine or assumed trivial by the medical branches of science. Yet a wide spectrum of non-pharmaceutical/medical scientific research coupled with ancient wisdom, documents profound insights into our nature and ability to evoke self-healing and regeneration.

    From time to time modern medicine and science express opinions about the nature of healing. None of these theories account for the true essence of healing. Behind the philosophical pronouncements on the essence of healing lies a chaotic jumble of fragmented and unexplored half-guesses about how the greatest healing power within our bodies works or doesn't work. And, when medical experts observe healing from natural methods, they typically dismiss it as the "placebo effect." Yet when this healing is observed on the very same patients who failed to respond to their best efforts, one has to question: where was the placebo effect in all their patient-doctor interactions? Obviously, when a patient who has consulted unsuccessfully with six or more doctors for the same condition over a period of ten years, suddenly experiences healing after visiting an alternative practitioner, there's more than a placebo effect involved.

    Buffeted by the whims of political and industrial economics, these researchers hesitate to probe the natural healing dimension of the body. This has been an unfortunate barrier to understanding how to nurture, strengthen, and fulfill the body's optimal potential for healing.

    The complete eradication of mycoplasmas from the body requires an intact, functional immune system working in concert with a DNA repair system and the human energy system. In these cases, it is of utmost importance to support Phase 1,11 and III liver detoxification systems and the kidneys using immunomodulation techniques to augment the body's army of immune cells that identify, tag, poison, blast, and consume microbes that invade the body's biological turf. Indeed, the augmentation of lymphocytes with herbal medicine is well known. (18)

    Clinical Research with Mycoplasma Infections

    Our preliminary observations with mycoplasma reveals that it usually underlies sensory nerve root inflammations and allied conditions caused by herpes-type viruses. It appears to be the deepest infection in the nervous system in chronically ill patients and the underlying cause or stressor in recurrent herpes-type viral infections. Yet, despite its wide prevalence, clinicians have ignored a possible role for mycoplasma in a wide spectrum of clinical syndromes. It seems that the thread that ties mycoplasma to RA and other degenerative diseases is stressed body defenses caused by a reduction in DNA-guided repair mechanisms and immunological defenses. Moreover, hidden parasite infections and parasitic toxins may be able to switch off the host's immune system, allowing mycoplasma to spread rapidly throughout the body.

    It appears that mycoplasma, like the herpes virus, harbors itself in the tube-like fibers of the nervous system which serves as a hidden tunnel for this infection to spread throughout the body without being detected by immune surveillance. With QMSM methods of electrodermal biofeedback, a practitioner can quickly identify and observe how these microbes stress the body and where they are predominantly located. Moreover, the sequence or layering of these immune-stressing microbes can be observed with a reasonable degree of accuracy (depending on the test system and practitioner) and confirmed by lab tests. In an overwhelming majority of clinical cases, we can trace these stressors back to old, unresolved dental foci such as septic root canals or ostitis in old tooth extraction sites.

    Our clinical efforts against mycoplasma have included the use of a blend of hyssop (whole herb concentrate; not extract) containing the full spectrum of naturally-occurring caravacrol, thymol, and other phytochemicals in synergistic combinations with other herbs and nutrients. The antimicrobial, anti-viral and nervine properties and cleansing effect of hyssop are extraordinary when combined with appropriate cofactors and transporters. (19-21) Most importantly, the oral use of the essential oils of oregano, rosemary, clove, DL limonene, and fermented adaptogenic herbs and citrus seed extracts may provide powerful phytomedicines against stealth infections, like mycoplasma. However, since mycoplasma commonly underlies viral infections, immunomodulation strategies against viral pathogens or hidden parasites may need to be employed for best results. These immunomodulation therapies are designed to capitalize on the immune system's vastly superior qualities to fight viral infections and account for the web-like int eraction and interpenetration of the immune system with the human energy system. In previous columns, I have discussed the components of such an immune enhancement program in detail. (22-23)

    Reestablishing the extraordinary complexity of the immune system at the quantum level of biophoton light communication is of primary importance in helping to alleviate the suffering of RA patients. While the anecdotal and scientific evidence discussed in this article are astute and insightful, detailed, carefully-controlled studies that uncover the clinical manifestations of mycoplasma and its interaction with parasites and other emerging microbes are warranted. (24) Since these studies reveal that mycoplasma is a cofactor, it should be assessed and treated before anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive drugs are employed. Clearly, eliminating the pain and inflammation of arthritis requires a better understanding of how multiple biological and chemical stressors interact with mycoplasma and with the immune system to induce inflammation. The major therapeutic advances will be with phytonutrients and mycelial mushrooms that augment immune functions in a multidirectional manner while chemical stressors that indu ce DNA instability are properly detoxified from the body.

    Finally, The Brucellosis Triangle documents how biological warfare research between 1942 to the present time has resulted in more deadly and infectious forms of mycoplasma. (25-27) Because of its affinity with the nervous system, detecting and properly treating mycoplasma will require clinical approaches that target and cleanse the nervous system. Toxicity of the nervous system, especially with heavy metals, serves as an impetus for mycoplasma to withdraw energy from the neurons and paralyze the immune system. Since ordinary blood and tissue tests do not reveal the presence of mycoplasma infection, physicians should employ multiplex PCR to detect this infectious agent and make some attempt to categorize the strata of microbial stressors that interfere with immunological functions in chronically ill patients. (29)

    References

    (1.) Vojdani A et al Detection of Mycoplasma genus and Mycoplasma fermentans by PCR in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome. FEMS Immunology & Medical Microbiology 1998 22355-65.

    (2.) Schaeverbeke T et al Systematic detection of mycoplasma by culture and PCR in 209 synovial fluid samples. British J Rheumat 1997; 36:310-14.

    (3.) Nicholson GL at al Diagnosis and treatment of Mycoplasmal infections in Persian Gulf war Illness-CHIDS Patients. Int; J Occupational Medicine, Immunology, and Toxicology 1996;5(1):69-78.

    (4.) Vojdani A Franco AR Multiplex PCR for the detection of Mycoplasma fermentans, M. hominis, and M. penetrans in Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and Gulf Syndrome. Microbiology 199; 187-99.

    (5.) Gerard HC et al Frequency of apolipoprotien E allele types in patients with Chlamydia-associated arthritis and other arthritides, 1998; Microbial Pathogenesis 26: 35-43.

    (6.) Dimitrov DS et al Mycoplasma fermentans cells are able to fuse with T-lymphocytes. Clin Inf Dis 1993: 17(1):305-08.

    (7.) Mulhradt PF et al Mycoplasma fermentans leads to in vitro IL-1, IL-6, tumor necrosis factor and prostaglandin product and is pyrogenic in rabbits. Inf Immun 1991 59:3969-74.

    (8.) Williams MH Recovery of mycoplasma from rheumatoid synovial fluid. In Third Pfizer Symposium on Rheumotic Diseases, 1966: Edinburgh University Press, 161-89.

    (9.) Washburn, LR et al Chronic arthritis of rabbits induced by mycoplasma. Clinical, microbiologic, and histological features. Arthritis Rheum 1960 23:825-36.

    (10.) Burdge DR et al Septic arthritis due to dual infections with Mycoplasma hominis and Ureaplasma urealyticym. J of Rheu 1988 15: 366-71.

    (11.) Posnett DN et al Interaction of Mycoplasma arthritidis superantigen with human T-cells. Clin Inf Dis 1993 17:170-75.

    (12.) Behar SM et al Mechanisms of autoimmune disease induction: the role of the immune response to microbial pathogens. Arth & Rheu 1995 38:458-76.

    (13.) Ewald, PW Plaque Time 2000; The Free Press, NY.

    (14.) Taylor-Robinson D Mycoplasma in rheumatoid arthritis and other human arthritides. J Clin Path 1996: 49:762-82.

    (15.) Cohen MA et al In vitro susceptibilities of Mycoplasma pneumoniae, bominis and ureaplasma urealyticum to clinafloxacin, PD 131628, ciprofloxacin and comparator drugs. J Antimicrob Chemother 1997: 40:308-9.

    (16.) Barton J et al Chem & Biolol 1999, 2:85.

    (17.) Coghlan A Electric DNA. New Scientist 1999: 2: 19.

    (18.) Greunwald J et al PDR for Herbal Medicines, 1998, Medical Economics Company, New Jersey.

    (19.) Yanick P. Meridian/Organ Nutraceutic Resonant Complexes: New Hope for Chronically-Sick Individuals. 2000, May Townsend Letter for-Doctors & Patients; 136-39.

    (20.) Yanick, P. Boosting Nutrient Uptake in Chronic Illness, Dec 2000, Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients.

    (21.) Yanick, P. Food Supplement Benefits and Risks in Carcinogenesis: Part I, Oct 2001. Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients.

    (22.) Yanick, P Immune System Protection against Bioterrorism. Dec 2001. Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients.

    (23.) Yanick, P Novel Antiviral Strategies against Biotorrorist Attacks. Feb-March 2002. Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients.

    (24.) Ewald W Guarding against the most dangerous emerging pathegens: Insights from evolutionary biology. 1996. Emerging Infectious Diseases 2:245-57.

    (25.) Scott DW & Scott WLC The Brucellasis Triangle 1998: The Chelmsford Publishers, Canada.

    (26.) Pathogenic Mycoplasma. US Patent No. 5, 242,820 issued September 7, 1993.

    (27.) Howell at al Acute Brucellosis among laboratory workers. 1948 New England Journal of Medicine 236:741.

    (28.) Colmonero et al Complications associated with brucellosis melitensis infection: A study of 530 cases, 1996; Medicine 75:4.

    (29.) Vojdani, A. Immunosciences Lab Manual, 2000.

    COPYRIGHT 2002 The Townsend Letter Group
    COPYRIGHT 2002 Gale Group
  6. jess

    jess New Member

    I was concerned with them a few years ago so I had the PCR test for mycoplasmas. Fortunately, it was negative. I believe Raintree has something for mycoplasmas. Jess
  7. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    Thank you for the informative article! That at leasts give me a starting point of where to look and maybe come up with my own homebred protocol of sorts.

    Thanks Jess for the Raintree reference, I did come across their site before so maybe I will email them.

    Anyone else have more info please add!

    Thank you!!!
    Holly
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    If I had known there was a transfer factor for mycoplasmas, I likely would have tried it before taking the ABX long term. TF's are very powerful, and apparently safe, alternatives. ProHealth does sell a TF which targets the mycoplasmas.

    Zappers will work, along with colloidal silver, TF's and the ABX but none of these things work until the mycoplasmas kill their host cells and go into the bloodstream in search of new cells to infect. That is why some people will feel no effect from the ABX and other will Herx from it right away. It took only 3 days for me to have the mother of all Herxes. I think a lot depends on long one has been infection. The longer, the more bacteria.

    I, personally, do not believe we can heal until we address our chronic infections. They are stealth and hide from our own immune systems, which are dysfunctional. I also believe that if there is excess fibrin in the blood from chronic infections, one must get rid of it as it provides hiding places for pathogens.

    Rich believes that the new methylation cycle protocol (MCP) will eventually allow our own immune systems to overcome the pathogens, among other problems. Some here have had a lot of detox on the treatment and that may be due, in part, to getting rid of some of the pathogens. It may also be due to chelation of toxins.

    I had big-time Herxing on all the treatments I tried up to the MCP. I do detox on the MCP but it is nothing compared to the old reactions. I believe this to be due to the fact that I have already addressed my chronic infections.

    I wish you the best and hope this helps.

    Love, Mikie
  9. darvick

    darvick New Member

    Thank you for that artical it shed a lot of light.
    I take garlic, aloe, all natural antibiotics. I would turn into a mushroom if i took long term antibiotics. I know there are more herbal remidies.

    Hugs,
    Dar
  10. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Nutramamedix cumanda? Mycoplasma is on its list. I have no experience with it, so can't give you more info.

    CherylSue
  11. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    Mikie -

    Do you know what makes the mycoplasmas come out of "hiding"? BTW, are you near Tampa/Clearwater??

    Thanks Dar & Cherysue I will look into those suggestions also. So far, Raintree's products sound the most promising, because unfortunately I cannot afford Transfer Factor Myco-Plus. Raintree recommended three products to me, each 120 caps - 6/day, $30/bottle - so $90/month. They are MYCO, Amazon-AF (anti-viral), and Amazon Immune Support. They are all made of various herbs. I need to do some more reading on the ingredients.

    Holly
    [This Message was Edited on 09/14/2007]
  12. hannahfaid

    hannahfaid New Member

    dr checked me again for mycoplasma using muscle respone testing and he said it's still something thats bothering me...the Coxsackie isn't though. I know it's off subject a little.. I am taking transfer factor for my viruses and nutramedix drops (cumanda and burbur).
  13. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    How long have you been taking those Hannah? Have you noticed anything?

    Holly
  14. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I live in Ft. Myers, not really that close but not that far away.

    Mycoplasmas do not have cell walls. They, like Lyme, are cell-wall deficient and can take other forms. Mycoplasmas can become cysts and lie dormant deep inside the body's tissue. The active mycoplasmas cannot survive on their own and, therefore, must invade cells. They replicate and kill the host cell and go in search of new cells to infect. It is when they are in the bloodstream, in search of new cells to infect, that they are vulnerable.

    Most of the time, the immune system doesn't recognize them and does not try to kill them. The TF's are like little oral vaccines which wake up the immune system to the fact that mycoplasmas are foreign invaders so it will go after them.

    ABX, like the Doxycycline, do not outright kill the mycoplasmas. They alter the cell wall chemistry so that the mycoplasmas cannot enter the cells and they perish in the bloodstream. You hear a lot about Herxing when on ABX. The degree of Herxing depends on several factors. First, if one's system is able to handle the dead pathogens efficiently, they will be excreted and not turn toxic. If one has been infected a long time, chances are that there is a lot of mycoplasma dieoff and the body cannot excrete the dead bacteria before they become toxic. At that time, the body will purge the toxic dead bacteria through profuse sweating, nausea, and/or diarrhea from hell.

    If one has been infected a long time, generation after generation of bacteria are in the same cycle of infecting cells. That is the time to get them. My first Herxes well a living hell but as time went on, they got lighter and lighter. After the initial six months or so on ABX, one pulses them to see how long one can stay off them before the symptoms of infection recur. Eventually, one will be able to stay off them permanently. All in all, it took 2 1/2 years, part of that time pulsing the ABX, for me to get the infection under control.

    If you go to Dr. Garth Nicolson's website, Immed, you can read a whole bunch of articles on mycoplasmas. Good luck. I hope this helps.

    Love, Mikie
  15. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Hi Mikie,

    I've just started taking doxy for the first time ever (thus far two 100-mg pills over a period of one week). I've been getting diarrhea, but bigger symptoms for me are cognitive confusion, fatigue, and irritability.

    How does the cognitive confusion fit into the theory of herxing you describe? This is much greater than any of the cognitive symptoms I had when experiencing die-off on AV's.

    I am not even sure what this is killing, since I've tested positive for chlamydia pneumoniae and mycoplasma in the past. Those two things seem to be quite related though, and so maybe it doesn't matter.

    Do you feel better since addressing the bacteria?

    Did you ever take anything like Flagyl (supposedly needed to get at the deep "spores" of the bacteria hidden in the body)?

    Did you have yeast problems?

    Are you pretty sure that what you were killing was mycoplasma rather than lyme too? What symptoms did you get when you temporarily stopped taking the drugs and the bugs temporarily came back?

    Do you have any Helpful Hints for those of us coping with antibiotics?

    I do not like antibiotics, but perhaps my previous avoidance of them has caused me to have a problem that is preventing me from getting well despite my AV and methylation efforts.

    It will be interesting to see if the methylation helps to keep viruses in check once their numbers have been decreased. I really hope so. Considering what a bad time I've had with yeast, 2 1/2 years on antibiotics seems like it would really do me in.

    Best, Lisa
  16. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I looked up the Raintree myco forumla online and am kind of intrigued.

    I wonder if this would be good to use prior to antibiotics (to cut down some of the numbers) or after (to keep levels down)? Or both?

    I don't think I'd want to do it at the same time though....that sounds like overkill.

    Thoughts?

  17. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    This is from the rain-tree site. We're not supposed to post the link, so I'm just going to copy the article here.

    **

    Mycoplasmas - Stealth Pathogens



    By Leslie Taylor, ND
    January, 2001
    Mycoplasmas are a specific and unique species of bacteria - the smallest free-living organism known on the planet. The primary differences between mycoplasmas and other bacteria is that bacteria have a solid cell-wall structure and they can grow in the simplest culture media. Mycoplasmas however, do not have a cell wall, and like a tiny jellyfish with a pliable membrane, can take on many different shapes which make them difficult to identify, even under a high powered electron microscope. Mycoplasmas can also be very hard to culture in the laboratory and are often missed as pathogenic causes of diseases for this reason.

    The accepted name was chosen because Mycoplasmas were observed to have a fungi-like structure (Mycology is the study of fungi - hence "Myco") and it also had a flowing plasma-like structure without a cell wall - hence "plasma". The first strains were isolated from cattle with arthritis and pleuro-pneumonia in 1898 at the Pasteur Institute. The first human strain was isolated in 1932 from an abscessed wound. The first connection between mycoplasmas and rheumatoid diseases was made in 1939 by Drs. Swift and Brown. Unfortunately, mycoplasmas didn't become part of the medical school curriculum until the late 1950's when one specific strain was identified and proven to be the cause of atypical pneumonia, and named Mycoplasma pneumonia. The association between immunodeficiency and autoimmune disorders with mycoplasmas was first reported in the mid 1970s in patients with primary hypogammaglobulinemia (an autoimmune disease) and infection with four species of mycoplasma that had localized in joint tissue. Since that time, scientific testing methodologies have made critical technological progress and along with it, more mycoplasma species have been identified and recorded in animals, humans and even plants.

    While Mycoplasma pneumonia is certainly not the only species causing disease in humans, it makes for a good example of how this stealth pathogen can move out of it's typical environment and into other parts of the body and begin causing other diseases. While residing in the respiratory tract and lungs, Mycoplasma pneumonia remains an important cause of pneumonia and other airway disorders, such as tracheobronchitis, pharyngitis and asthma. When this stealth pathogen hitches a ride to other parts of the body, it is associated with non-pulmonary manifestations, such as blood, skin, joint, central nervous system, liver, pancreas, and cardiovascular syndromes and disorders. Even as far back as 1983, doctors at Yale noted:

    "Over the past 20 years the annual number of reports on extrapulmonary symptoms during Mycoplasma (M.) pneumoniae disease has increased. Clinical and epidemiological data indicate that symptoms from the skin and mucous membranes, from the central nervous system, from the heart, and perhaps from other organs as well are not quite uncommon manifestations of M. pneumoniae disease."(15)

    This single stealth pathogen has been discovered in the urogenital tract of patients suffering from inflammatory pelvic disease, urethritis, and other urinary tract diseases (8) It has been discovered in the heart tissues and fluid of patients suffering from cardititis, pericarditis, tachycardia, hemolytic anemia, and other coronary heart diseases.(9, 10, 14) It has been found in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with meningitis and encephalitis, seizures, ALS, Alzheimer's and other central nervous system infections, diseases and disorders.(11-13) It has even been found regularly in the bone marrow of children with leukemia.(16- 18) It is amazing that one single tiny bacteria can be the cause of so many seemingly unrelated diseases in humans. But as with all mycoplasma species, the disease is directly related to where the mycoplasma resides in the body and which cells in the body it attaches to or invades.

    Today, over 100 documented species of mycoplasmas have been recorded to cause various diseases in humans, animals, and plants. Mycoplasma pneumonia as well as at least 7 other mycoplasma species have now been linked as a direct cause or significant co-factor to many chronic diseases including, rheumatoid arthritis, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, diabetes, Crohn's Disease, ALS, nongonoccal urethritis, asthma, lupus, infertility, AIDS and certain cancers and leukemia, just to name a few.(1-6) In 1997, the National Center for Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's journal, Emerging Infectious Diseases, published the article, Mycoplasmas: Sophisticated, Reemerging, and Burdened by Their Notoriety, by Drs. Baseman and Tully who stated:


    "Nonetheless, mycoplasmas by themselves can cause acute and chronic diseases at multiple sites with wide-ranging complications and have been implicated as cofactors in disease. Recently, mycoplasmas have been linked as a cofactor to AIDS pathogenesis and to malignant transformation, chromosomal aberrations, the Gulf War Syndrome, and other unexplained and complex illnesses, including chronic fatigue syndrome, Crohn's disease, and various arthritides."

    Mycoplasmas, unlike viruses, can grow in tissue fluids (blood, joint, heart, chest and spinal fluids) and can grow inside any living tissue cell without killing the cells, as most normal bacteria and viruses will do. Mycoplasmas are frequently found in the oral and genito-urinary tracts of normal healthy people and are found to infect females four times more often than males, which just happens to be the same incidence rate in rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and other related disorders.(7) Mycoplasmas are parasitic in nature and can attach to specific cells without killing the cells and thus their infection process and progress can go undetected. In some people the attachment of mycoplasmas to the host cell acts like a living thorn; a persistent foreign substance, causing the host's immune defense mechanism to wage war. This allergic type of inflammation often results in heated, swollen, and painful inflamed tissues, like those found in rheumatoid diseases, fibromyalgia and many other autoimmune disorders like lupus and MS, Crohn's and others. In such cases the immune system begins attacking itself and/or seemingly healthy cells. Some species of mycoplasmas also have the unique ability to completely evade the immune system. Once they attach to a host cell in the body, their unique plasma and protein coating can then mimic the cell wall of the host cell and the immune system cannot differentiate the mycoplasma from the body's own host cell.

    Mycoplasmas are parasitic in nature because they rely on the nutrients found in host cells including cholesterol, amino acids, fatty acids and even DNA. They especially thrive in cholesterol rich and arginine-rich environments. Mycoplasmas can generally be found in the mucous membrane in the respiratory tract. They need cholesterol for membrane function and growth, and there is an abundance of cholesterol in the bronchial tubes of the respiratory tract. Once attached to a host cell, they then begin competing for nutrients inside the host cells. As nutrients are depleted, then these host cells can begin to malfunction, or even change normal functioning of the cell, causing a chain reaction with other cells (especially within the immune and endocrine systems). Mycoplasmas can even cause RNA and DNA mutation of the host cells and have been linked to certain cancers for this reason. Mycoplasmas can also invade and live inside host cells which evade the immune system, especially white blood cells. Once inside a white blood cell, mycoplasmas can travel throughout the body and even cross the blood/brain barrier, and into the central nervous system and spinal fluid.


    FOOTNOTES

    Baseman, Joel, et.al., Mycoplasmas: Sophisticated, Reemerging, and Burdened by Their Notoriety, CDC, Journal of Infectious Diseases, Vol 3, No.1, Feb 1997
    S-C. Mycoplasmas and AIDS. In: Maniloff J, McElhaney RN, Finch LR, Baseman JB, editors. Mycoplasmas: molecular biology and pathogenesis. Washington (DC): American Society for Microbiology, 1992:525-45.
    Nicolson G, Nicolson NL. Diagnosis and treatment of mycoplasmal infections in Gulf War illness-CFIDS patients. Intl J Occup Med Immunol Toxicol 1996;5:69-78.
    Wear DJ, et.al. Mycoplasmas and oncogenesis:persistent infection and multistage malignant transformation. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1995;92:10197-201.
    Ekbom A, Daszak P, Kraaz W, Wakefield AJ. Crohn's disease after in-utero measles virus exposure. Lancet 1996;348:516-7.
    Taylor-Robinson D. Mycoplasmas in rheumatoid arthritis and other human arthritides. J Clin Pathol 1996;49:781-2.
    Dr.Harold Clark, The Intercessor, June 1993, The Road Back Foundation, Delaware OH.
    Goulet M, et.al., Isolation of Mycoplasma pneumoniae from the human urogenital tract. J Clin Microbiol 1995;33:2823-5
    Daxbock F, et.al., Severe hemolytic anemia and excessive leukocytosis masking mycoplasma pneumonia. Ann Hematol. 2001 Mar;80(3):180-2.
    Higuchi ML, et.al., Detection of Mycoplasma pneumoniae and Chlamydia pneumoniae in ruptured atherosclerotic plaques. Braz J Med Biol Res. 2000 Sep;33(9):1023-6.
    Socan M, Neurological symptoms in patients whose cerebrospinal fluid is culture- and/or polymerase chain reaction-positive for Mycoplasma pneumoniae. Clin Infect Dis. 2001 Jan 15;32(2):E31-5.
    Bencina D, et.al., Intrathecal synthesis of specific antibodies in patients with invasion of the central nervous system by Mycoplasma pneumoniae. Eur J Clin Microbiol Infect Dis. 2000 Jul;19(7):521-30
    Smith R, et.al., Neurologic manifestations of Mycoplasma pneumoniae infections: diverse spectrum of diseases. A report of six cases and review of the literature. Clin Pediatr (Phila). 2000 Apr;39(4):195-201.
    Umemoto M, Advanced atrioventricular block associated with atrial tachycardia caused by Mycoplasma pneumoniae infection. Acta Paediatr Jpn. 1995 Aug;37(4):518-20.
    Lind K. Manifestations and complications of Mycoplasma pneumoniae disease: a review.Yale J Biol Med. 1983 Sep-Dec;56(5-6):461-8.
    Alexander FE. Is Mycoplasma Pneumonia associated with childhood acute lymphoblastic leukemia? Cancer Causes Control. 1997 Sep;8(5):803-11.
    Hall JE, Mycoplasma pneumonia in acute childhood leukemia. Pediatr Pulmonol. 1985 Nov-Dec;1(6):333-6.
    Murphy WH, Gullis C, Dabich L, Heyn R, Zarafonetis CJD. Isolation of Mycoplasma from leukemic and nonleukemia patients. J Nat Cancer Inst 1970;45:243-51.
    More research here


    To understand how mycoplasmas can cause widespread disease, we must first look at the species' unique properties and interactions with host cells. Unlike viruses and bacteria, mycoplasmas are the smallest free-living and self-duplicating microorganisms, as they don't require living cells to replicate their DNA and growth.


    HOW MYCOPLASMAS INTERACT IN THE BODY

    Mycoplasmas are able to hide inside the cells of the host (patient) or to attach to the outside of host cells.
    Whether they live inside or outside the host cell, they depend on host cells for nutrients such as cholesterol, amino acids, etc. They compete with the host cells for these nutrients which can interfere with host cell function without killing the host cell.
    A mycoplasma has very little DNA of its own, but is capable of using DNA from a host cell. When a mycoplasma takes over the DNA of the host cell, anything can happen - including causing that cell to malfunction in many different ways and/or die, or can cause DNA mutation of the host cell.
    Mycoplasmas attach to host cells with a tiny arm coated in protein which attaches to the protein coating of host cells. For this reason, antibiotics like tetracycline, which are classified as "protein synthesis inhibitors" are often used against mycoplasma infections. While these antibiotics may block this protein attachment and very slowly starve it from the nutrients it needs from host cells to thrive and replicate, it still takes a healthy immune system to actually kill the mycoplasma for good.
    Mycoplasmas are highly adaptable to changing environments and can move anywhere in the body, attaching to or invading virtually any type of cell in the body.
    The mycoplasma adhesion proteins are very similar to human proteins. Once adhered to the host cell, the mycoplasma can completely mimic or copy the protein cell of the host cell. This can cause the immune system to begin attacking the body's own cells; an event that happens in all autoimmune diseases.
    Certain Mycoplasma species can either activate or suppress host immune systems, and they may use these activities to evade host immune responses. Mycoplasmas can turn on the chain reaction called an immune system response. This includes the stimulation of pro-inflammatory cytokines (chemical messengers of the immune system) which is generally found in most autoimmune and inflammatory diseases and disorders.
    Mycoplasma can also attach to or invade immune system cells, like the very phagocytes (natural killer cells) that are supposed to kill them. Inside these phagocytes, they can be carried to new locations of inflammation or disease - hidden away like a spy who has infiltrated the defending army.
    When a mycoplasma attaches to a host cell, it generates and releases hydrogen peroxide and superoxide radicals which cause oxidative stress and damage to the surrounding tissues.


    The Main Human Mycoplasma Pathogens
    Pathogen / Implicated Disease (1-6)

    Mycoplasma genitalium Arthritis, chronic nongonococcal urethritis, chronic pelvic inflammatory disease, other urogenital infections and diseases, infertility, AIDS/HIV
    Mycoplasma fermentans Arthritis, Gulf War Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Lupus, AIDS/HIV, autoimmune diseases, ALS, psoriasis and Scleroderma, Crohn's and IBS, cancer, endocrine disorders, Multiple Sclerosis, diabetes
    Mycoplasma salivarium Arthritis, TMJ disorders, Eye and ear disorders and infections, gingivitis, periodontal diseases including even cavities.
    Mycoplasma hominis and Ureaplasma urealyticum Pelvic inflammatory disease, infertility, non-gonococcal urethritis, vaginitis, cervicitis, amnionitis, pyelonephritis, post-partum septicemia, neonatal pneumonia, neonatal conjunctivitis, Reiter's syndrome, peritonitis, wound infections (C-section), low birth weight infants, and premature rupture of membranes.
    Mycoplasma pneumonia
    Pneumonia, asthma, upper and lower respiratory diseases, heart diseases, leukemia, Steven-Johnson syndrome, polyarthritis or septic arthritis, CNS disorders and diseases, urinary tract infections, Crohn's and Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Guillain-Barr syndrome, polyradiculitis, encephalitis, and septic meningitis, autoimmune diseases.
    Mycoplasma incognitus and
    Mycoplasma penetrans AIDS/HIV, urogenital infections and diseases, Autoimmune disorders and diseases
    Mycoplasma pirum
    Urogenital infections and diseases, AIDS/HIV
    Mycoplasma faucium, M. lipophilum and M. buccale
    Diseases of the gingival crevices and respiratory tract


    FOOTNOTES
    Krause DC, Taylor-Robinson D. Mycoplasmas which infect humans. In: Maniloff J, McElhaney RN, Finch LR, Baseman JB, editors. Mycoplasmas: molecular biology and pathogenesis. Washington (DC): American Society for Microbiology, 1992:417-44.
    Murray HW, Masur H, Senterfit LB, Roberts RB. The protean manifestations of Mycoplasma pneumoniae infection in adults. Am J Med 1975;58:229-42.
    Baseman, Joel, et.al., Mycoplasmas: Sophisticated, Reemerging, and Burdened by Their Notoriety. CDC, Journal of Infectious Diseases, Vol 3, No.1, Feb 1997
    Blanchard, A., et.al., AIDS-associated mycoplasmas. Ann.Rev.Microbiol. 1994; 48:687-712.
    Hawkins, et.al., Association of mycoplasma and human immunodeficiency virus infection: detection of amplified mycoplasma fermentans DNA in blood. J.Infec.Dis. 1992: 165:581-585
    Hussain AI, et.al., Mycoplasma penetrans and other mycoplasmas in urine of human immunodeficiency virus-positive children. J Clin Microbiol. 1999 May;37(5):1518-23.
    Follow this link for more technical information and clinical studies.
    Mycoplasmas and Fibromyalgia information here.
    HSI Article on mycoplasma and autoimmune disorders here


    Treatment Options For Mycoplasmal Infections

    The negative impact of a mycoplasmal infection on the human immune system is undisputed. Due to it's ability to either activate or suppress the immune system, it is now being considered one of the culprits of many autoimmune diseases. Yet, scientists still argue over the "chicken or egg first" type of sequence of events. Do the mycoplasmas begin growing and replicating first and then weaken or deregulate the immune system? Or does a weakened immune system (caused by stress, poor diet or other illness) allow the mycoplasmas to take hold and begin their opportunistic growth resulting in chronic disease and to weaken and deregulate the immune system even further? The answer is probably both, and it becomes one of the most critical treatment aspects of mycoplasmal infections. In immunodeficient patients it can be very difficult to treat these mycoplasma infections with appropriate broad spectrum antibiotics which are immunosuppressive themselves. Although the tetracycline and erythromycin types of antibiotics are effective for some mycoplasmal infections, M. fermentans, M. hominis and M. pirum strains are usually resistant to erythromycin, and tetracycline-resistant strains of M. hominis and U. urealyticum have been reported. However, these antibiotics have a very limited ability to directly kill these mycoplasmas, and their efficacy eventually depends on an intact host immune system to eliminate the mycoplasmas. These types of protein inhibiting antibiotics will stop the protein adhesion of the mycoplasma to host cells but won't directly kill the mycoplasma itself. With an already weaken immune system, many patients lack the ability to mount a strong antibody response against these deadly stealth pathogens to kill them effectively.

    Regardless, many physicians and rheumatologists are treating their arthritis, CFISD, fibromyalgia and other mycoplasma infections with long term antibiotic therapy. One of the more popular conventional protocols involves rotating multiple 6 week cycles of Minocycline or Doxycycline (200-300 mg/day), Ciprofloxacin (1,500 mg/day), Azithromycin (250-500 mg/day, and/or Clarithromycin (750-1,000 mg/day) among others.(1) Sometimes the side effects of these strong antibiotics can be as bad as the symptoms of the diseases they are treating since a minimum of 6 months and up to two years of antibiotic therapy may be required. Many doctors now believe that antibiotics should not be used solely or exclusively to treat mycoplasmal infections, without addressing rebuilding the immune system which is imperative for a complete recovery and eradication of infection. Others are using more natural antibiotics found in plants which can be as effective or more effective with fewer side effects or negative impact on the body. These include olive leaf extract products, urva ursi, and Neem leaf or seed extracts. Also see Raintree's Myco herbal formula.

    One of the main side effects of antibiotics, whether it is a natural plant antibiotic or a chemical antibiotic, is the loss of friendly bacteria that is needed in the gastrointestinal system for proper digestion and elimination. No antibiotic can differentiate a friendly bacteria from a harmful one. Therefore, any time an antibiotic must be taken, especially long term, taking a probiotic formula to replace friendly bacteria is indicated and helpful in avoiding side effects like candida and fungi overgrowth which can cause digestive and elimination difficulties and other side effects. Several probiotic products are widely available over-the-counter which combine these friendly bacteria - live cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilous, Lactobacillus bifidus and other bacteria with FOS (fructoologosaccharides) to promote growth in the gastrointestinal system. It's important to take this type of supplement when taking antibiotics of any kind and best to be taken either 3-4 hours prior to, or after taking the antibiotic dosage. Full live-cultured yogurt contains acidophilous and is a good food source for these friendly bacteria. Also see Raintree's Amazon A-F.

    Another common side effect when taking antibiotics is called a Herxheimer Reaction. This occurs from the organism die-off and generally is the first indication that the antibiotic therapy is working. Symptoms that are associated with a Herxheimer include: chills, fever, night sweats, muscle aches, joint pains, lymphatic pain, mental fog, and extreme fatigue. Depending on the severity of the infection and resulting die-off, these symptoms can last 1-2 weeks and sometimes longer and can vary in intensity. Drinking at least two quarts of filtered or distilled water every day to flush the organisms from the body is helpful in reducing the length and severity of a Herxheimer reaction. Another natural remedy to reduce Herxheimer reactions and thought to be helpful in helping the lymph glands to filter and remove dying organisms is a Whole Lemon-Olive Oil Drink. To prepare this natural remedy, place one whole unpeeled lemon (washed) in a blender with 1 cup of juice or water and 1 tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil. Blend in blender until smooth, then pour through a wire strainer. Discard pulp and drink liquid.

    Once the mycoplasmas are being controlled by some form of effective natural or chemical antibiotic, re-nourishing and replacing the nutrients drained from the infected host cells can help speed recovery and reduce symptoms. A general multi-vitamin supplement plus extra C, D, E, CoQ-10, beta-carotene, quercetin, folic acid, bioflavoids and biotin are necessary and helpful when recovering from a mycoplasmal infection.

    Supplementing back the depleted amino acids has been reported to be helpful in some recovering from these infections. These include L-cysteine, L-tyrosine, L-glutamine, L-carnitine, and malic acid. Remember, however, that mycoplasmas thrive on arginine! Avoid L-arginine supplements and multi-amino acid formulas containing L-arginine, as well as foods rich in arginine to avoid feeding the mycoplasmas. The richest food sources of arginine (to avoid) are nuts and seeds, including the oils derived from seeds and nuts which should be eliminated or drastically reduced in the diet.

    Vitamins A, C and E, and other antioxidants found in natural plants, have also been reported to help speed recovery and to minimize the oxidative stress caused by mycoplasmas. One of the most popular antioxidants sold today are various extracts of grape seeds. Remember however, most seeds are rich in arginine, including grape seeds, and should generally be avoided.

    Other helpful supplements to replenish drained nutrients from parasitic mycoplasmas are generally indicated based upon which specific cells the mycoplasma might be feeding on and which nutrients are being depleted. Specifically with fibromyalgia patients, leading research indicates that many of the hormones and enzymes produced in the neuroendocrine system and Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis are depleted or malfunctioning which have the ability to cause many of the symptoms found in these patients.

    Finally and most importantly is nutritionally supporting the immune system. There are various natural products sold today which can stimulate and support immune function. There are many natural products available in the market place today which nutritionally support immune function. One of the best from the rainforest is cat's claw. Also see Raintree's Immune Support. Another important consideration is the elimination of drugs that might suppress immunity. Dr. Garth Nicolson, one of the world renown experts on mycoplasmas states: "We have recommended that patients be taken off antidepressants and other potentially immune-suppressing drugs. Some of these drugs are used to help alleviate certain signs and symptoms, but in our opinion they can interfere with therapy, and they should be gradually reduced or eliminated."(1) This of course would be indicated for many fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue patients who are routinely prescribed antidepressants.

    FOOTNOTES
    Nicolson, et.al., Diagnosis and Integrative Treatment of Intracellular Bacterial Infections in Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia Syndromes, Gulf War Illness, Rheumatoid Arthritis and Other Chronic Illnesses. Clinical Practice of Alternative Medicine 2000; 1(2) 42-102




  18. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I have never been tested for Lyme but because the treatment is basically the same, it really didn't matter to me. For all I know, I could have Lyme and mycoplasma infections. Because I did test pos. for the mycoplasma when I was first infected and it was active, I think it's a safe assumption to believe the dieoff included mycoplasmas.

    Before the ABX, AV, TF, and Heparin treatments, I often felt as though I had the flu. Each of these treatments can cause all kinds of reactions, including cognitive. If you notice in this excellent article, mental fog is mentioned. I still get cognitive problems when I am sick or run down. I have a bladder infection and have noticed that I am having problems typing and understand what I read and hear. My memory is shot too.

    Fri. night, I became really ill after I started the Bactrim I'm currently taking. Yesterday and today, I have been purging. I'm assuming that the bacteria causing the infection is dying off in some pretty large numbers.

    Just prior to getting sick with the cold I caught at work and the bladder infections, I was feeling quite well. In fact, I thought I could work. That was about seven weeks ago and I've been sick ever since. I'm seeing a urologist and we will get this UTI thing taken care of and I'll feel well again.

    I have not gone after the cysts because they, like Herpes-Family Viruses, lie dormant and do not appear to cause problems. I keep Doxycycline on hand and if I suspect the mycoplasmas are trying to reactivate, I will do a cycle or two of them. I also keep acyclovir on hand. Usually, I don't have any problems. Until this Klebsiella Pneumoniae infection, which I believe is responsible not only for the UTI but also for the start of pneumonia when I had the cold, I was making good progress.

    There is no way to know for certain if all traces of the mycoplasma are gone or gone latent. I judge by how I am feeling. For years, I felt as though I had the flu and that has been gone since the treatment regimen I mentioned above. I think when one gets to the pulsing stage of the treatments, it is easier to see the return of symptoms when one goes off the meds. This isn't an exact science and one has to learn to listen to one's body.

    This article makes an excellent point: One must simultaneously treat the immune system to strengthen it so that when the mycoplasma population is small enough, one's own immune system can take over and kill the stragglers. As you know, all the while I was on these treatments, I was also taking probiotics, undenatured whey, and colostrum. All these will help rebuild the immune system.

    Dr. Nicolson recommends colloidal silver, along with the ABX. I used my zapper as well, hoping to catch some of the pathogens in the bloodstream.

    Sorry I can't be of more help. I think your article is of more help than I can be. We all react differently to the treatments and, as the article states, mycoplasmas can cause all kinds of different illnesses and symptoms.

    Love, Mikie
    [This Message was Edited on 09/16/2007]
  19. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    Thank you Mikie for your very detailed info...that's neat to know you are close to being a neighbor! I will check out that Dr's website.

    Hearing all this about herxing & detox effects is very very discouraging. I am working FT and wiped out as it is with other symptoms that come/go. The fatigue, muscle soreness/inflammation, and brain/memory fog is always there not to mention being depressed about all this - I mean I'm 32, been sickly for as long as I can remember, and this is what I have to look forward to for the rest of my pathetic life! Then I think about possibly trying to kill these various pathogens and I don't think I could do it! There's no way I could do my job - people already know or think something is wrong w/me because of the way I act. I couldn't take feeling really sick for weeks/months on end, not knowing if it truly was helping me. I feel like a wimp, and hopeless. It'd be one thing if I could quit my job and stay home for a year to just do this but I can't! I don't have anyone to support me. I don't know what to do :( I am taking a 5 day cruise next month (alone) and I'm prob only going to be able to 1/2 enjoy it. Life wasn't meant to be like this!!!! I'm sorry - feeling very down right now.

    I just starting seeing a holistic MD and sent out an adrenal saliva test and getting blood workup this Thursday. After I have the results I guess we'll see what he has to say. He's probably going to try to get my adrenals working again and who knows what else. I am also considering getting off bc pills w/him trying to balance them but I don't know if that will help me at all or not, and if I don't take them I have horrible pms symptoms. His first recommendation was eat organic & more raw veggies/fruits, which I have been for last two weeks - except cheated a few times, but some improvement is better than none.

    Holly
  20. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    Rich Van K says bc pills can interfere with folate ..and problems with folate metabolism are a big part of what is going wrong in PWCs.....

    just thought I wld throw that in the mix..

    for more on Rich Van K's ideas, just search under his name.

    d.