What Kind of Viral Treatment Might I Use Now?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Slayadragon, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    For the past year or so, I've been focusing almost exclusively on eliminating toxins from my body.

    I started methylation support (FolaPro, ActiFolate, B12) a year ago. Eventually I added some basic supplements (ALA, Glycine) along with appropriate minerals (molybdenum and manganese) to enhance removal of "regular toxins."

    At some point I may give glutathione (perhaps nebulized) a try to enhance this.

    I had a big detox reaction from this at first, but things seem to have slowed way down now.

    In December I realized I had a toxic mold problem in my house and moved out, leaving my belongings behind. Since then I have been practicing mold avoidance and working on eliminating mold poisons.

    Biotoxins (according to Rich) appear to be detoxified differently from "ordinary" toxins, and so I've been using a different strategy for them. This has included cholestyramine/Questran (in small doses), fish oil (big effects on my brain!), and moderate dose Vitamin C IV's (25 cc's, remarkably effective).

    There are a couple of other things I'm planning to try soon: CholestePure (made by Pure Encapsulations, may work similarly to Questran), unpasteurized noni juice and a seaweed drink called Limu.

    I'm still experiencing what I think are effects of mold poisoning....mostly a sort of frozen feeling that I liken to feeling like Sleeping Beauty. A lot of toxins are still buried in my brain, I think. Hopefully I can work on bringing them out gradually.

    Anyway, I have been seeing a new CFS doctor, Keith Berndtson in the Chicago area to get the IV's. It's taken me 10 sessions at 15+ minutes each, but I've finally gotten him excited about the issue of toxins (biotoxins and other toxins). A new member of our club.

    He seems to be unable to resist trying new twists on the IV's, and I'm okay with that as long as I don't have anything I need to do. On a couple of occasions he's raised the Vitamin C dose to 50 cc's, which gave me a big herx similar to what I've gotten on doxycyline/minocycline (except not as strong). I think that one hits lyme, though it could also be chlamydia pneumoniae (I tested really positive for that last fall) or something else.

    Apparently the high-dose Vitamin C can't get used quickly enough by the cells and thus converts to hydrogen peroxide in the intracellular matrix. Pathogens don't live well in H2O2 and thus are killed off. It seems that bacteria-type pathogens die off first....viruses are more resistant.

    Earlier this week he added a little kicker of procaine at the end. This is supposed to drive the pathogens out of the tissues (though I wasn't quite clear on that until today). And do that it did....I started getting some of the same effect I did with the antibiotics, along with some of the effects I got with Famvir (including trigger point pain and agitated exhaustion).

    I took Famvir for about six months early last year and didn't feel like I had gotten anywhere since I felt worse in general by the end of the time. I think that was due to the mold in my house getting worse though. I had forgotten all about the trigger point pain and agitated exhaustion, which actually got worse on the Famvir but went away entirely by the end.

    So the antiviral did something after all! Kelly asked me at one point if I thought that it might have been useful to have done it once I addressed the mold, but I was kind of suspicious. Now I think that if it helped those particular symptoms, maybe it helped in general too.

    Anyway, I've thought for some time that once I got the toxins more or less under control, addressing pathogens directly probably would be necessary. I still am not quite done with the toxins, but it seems time to start thinking about the pathogens.

    (Amy Yasko suggests that something like Valtrex might need to be used after toxicity is addressed. She doesn't seem to pay any attention to lyme or other bacteria, or to biotoxins, but very few doctors are attuned to all of these things.)

    My guess is that these viral symptoms will go away after a while, but the idea that there are viruses still hiding gives me a little pause. I thus am wondering whether and how I might try to address them at this point (or soon).

    A "master list" of things that are said to address viruses is below. (Thank you, Elisa!)

    The first things that have come to mind are the following:

    * Colostrum (undifferentiated transfer factor). I used this for quite some time last year and found that it was helpful in getting rid of the "almost getting a cold" feeling that I had almost constantly. After getting away from the mold, that feeling went away almost entirely and so I stopped the supplement. Now I wonder if it might be useful for the herpes family viruses as well.

    * Continued use of the IV's with Vitamin C and procaine. This may be the most creative treatment I've heard of so far. Hopefully it will help me feel better rather than worse if I continue it into the future. (I would think it wouldn't be worse, if done in moderation.) This seems better than super-high dose Vitamin C (which I think I'd need to get viruses rather than bacteria) or H2O2 delivered directly (I don't think my veins could take it and it makes me rather nervous anyway).

    * Low-dose Famvir. My wonderful CFS doctor in Indianapolis, Dale Guyer, frequently compounds Famvir and Valcyte into very low doses....for instance, 50 mg. (This is very low since the "usual dose" for these drugs is around 1000 mg.) My body is so sensitive that it gets the same reaction from very small amounts of antivirals or antibiotics that other people do from really high doses. I don't know why.

    * Colloidal silver. I've had lots of success with colloidal silver for sinus infections (squirt bottles), lung infections (nebulized) and gut problems (oral). Today I suggested to Dr. B that maybe I should get it as an IV. He said he would worry about my turning blue (a totally ridiculous notion since that only has been reported happening when people drink cups of homemade solution per day for years). I made this up myself thought that this was probably too unstable to be purified enough for IV use, but I have found some instances (especially in the early 20th century) where people have done this successfully. I doubt I can get any doctor to do it though.

    * Proteolytic Enzymes (Vascuzyme). Dr. B recommended this. THe info sheet says it "breaks down various inflammatory proteins". Why this would help to kill viruses, I'm not sure. I am remaining open-minded though. (Another doctor recommended frankincense for inflammatory processes. I've yet to try that, but again I'm open-minded.)

    * Lauricidin. Kelly kindly gave me some of this last year, meaning that I wouldn't have to buy it. I've heard it's quite strong though.

    * Inositol Hexaphosphate. I know nothing about this, but Dr. B recommended it.

    * Zapper. I have one of these, which is supposed to kill pathogens in the bloodstream. I only tried it last fall when I was really sick from the mold, and so don't know how I'd do on it now.

    * Astralagus or comprehensive Traditional Chinese Medicine. I used TCM from a very good doctor last year but didn't find it helpful. This may have been because of the Famvir and/or mold though. TCM is rather expensive though. Saving the money for something else, like human growth hormone, may be a much better idea.

    Regardless of what I do, I think I need to make sure I keep taking HGH regularly. That was the only thing that really saved me when I was on the Famvir. My body was really weakened before I started it.

    Anyway, other suggestions? I'm totally open-minded at this point.


    [This Message was Edited on 06/23/2008]
  2. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member



    Beta glucan


    burdock root

    Cat's Claw


    Coconut Oil/lauricidin

    Colloidal Silver





    Garlic extract

    Green Tea



    Indian Consumption Plant (Lomatium Dissectum)

    Inositol or IP6


    Lavender (essential oil)

    Lemon balm (made fresh)

    Licorice root extract




    North American ginseng root extract

    Olive Leaf Extract

    Oregano Oil

    Oscillocinum (homeopathic)

    Pau D'arco





    sheep sorrel



    St John's Wort

    Sweet annie (Artemisia annua)

    Thymus extract

    Transfer Factor


    Undenatured Whey Protein

    Virastop (enzymes)

    Vitamin A, C & E

    Wild Oats (Avena sativa)


    [This Message was Edited on 06/23/2008]
  3. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    dont forget red marine algae!
  4. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Well, the Vascuzyme sounds exactly like Virastop. It would just be a different manufacturer's proprietary formulation of the same type of enzymes. Those protein-digesting enzymes are said to be anti-inflammatory on about a par with aspirin or Motrin.

    I hope you find some good stuff to try that agrees with you!

  5. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Slayadragon,

    Thanks for all the info in your post here. Have you by any chance read about a concentrated enzyme product called <a href="http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=038586;p=">Rechtsregulat</a>? It's been discussed on some of the Lyme forums as a possible treatment for Lyme. Dietrich Klinghardt (MD) spoke highly about it, along with bee venom therapy in a paper entitled <a href="http://www.neuraltherapy.com/LymeALookBeyond6.pdf">Lyme Disease: A Look Beyond Antibiotics</a>. You might find it interesting if you've not yet heard of some of his protocols.

    Also, I've heard far infrared saunas can be effective for detoxification and possibly viral conditions.

    Regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 06/24/2008]
  6. tansy

    tansy New Member

    might be worth looking into as well. There's some research on it and it's described in detail in Stephen Buhner's book "Healing Lyme".

    The Resveratrol I use is sourced from Japanese Knotweed.

    I found I tolerated these two plant based remedies better than others antimicorbials I tried; they're immune modulators too which can help in these DDs.

    tc, Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 06/24/2008]