What vits and minerals should you avoid with Guai?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by purcey, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. purcey

    purcey New Member

    I have been on guai since Oct. and stopped all vitamins and minerals. I am starting to take ZMB, what else do you should I be taking, and is there any I shouldn't or is contraindicated.

    Thanks,

    Purcey
  2. purcey

    purcey New Member

    Thanks for replying so quickly. Should I repost next week if I haven't gotten an answere, or will Mikie pick up my original question?

    Thanks,

    purcey
  3. Jude

    Jude New Member

    I have been on the guai protocol for nine months now and sometimes pop in here to answer what questions that I can. First, have you read Dr. StAmands book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Fibromyalgia"? For example most vitamin C is manufactured with rosehips. Rosehips are a blocker with the guai. Bioflavonids used in supplements are another blocker. I'm not sure what ZMB is but if you mean ZMA, the magnesium in ZMA comes from a plant source. This has caused blocking in some people. Hope this helps.

    Jude
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Jude -- you are scaring me! Claudia at Dr. St. Amand's website told me that Centrum was OK and it has vitamin C. Because the cheap vitamins are so low in vitamin E, I had to buy some seperate vit. E, making sure it was synthetic, not natural. I hope you all know that you need to take at least 3 times as much synthetic E to absorb the same amt. Vitramin E is very important to me, as I have Metabolic Syndrome, which is a killer. I also need Magnesium, for my Mitral Valve even more than for any other FMS reasons. Nobody told me there was a problem with it. If I have to give up all anti-oxident vitamins, I will stop the Guai first, since the Guai is not proven, but I consider anti-oxidents to be an absolute proven necessity for people like us whose immune systems are Th2 dominant. It is too dangerous to not take them, IMO. This is already getting to be a pain in the butt.
    I'm off to the guaidoc website to check out what you said about magnesium...which I take every night. I was in a really bad mood today because my doctor failed to call in my Neurontin, and now I have to reduce the dose instead of raising it like I was supposed to, and now this!
    Bah humbug!
    Klutzo

    Purcey -- try the guaidoc website. They have lists of ingredients that are OK or not. I am still waiting for my book to arrive and I've been on guai a week now, so I've gone there a couple of times, and Claudia will answer your questions by e-mail if you can't find an answer. She told me that Centrum and Centrum silver are both OK. I was surprised, because I rejected the Centrum silver when I saw it in the store, and I believe it was because it has gingko in it. If that is true, don't take it no matter what anyone says. I ended up buying a cheap store-brand men's vitamin, so I could avoid iron. All those cheap vitamins have iron, and it is a very bad thing to take after menopause, unless you have proven iron-deficiency anemia.
  5. purcey

    purcey New Member

    Thanks for the info. It is really confusing as one place it says don't take mag with quai, another says yes. What is the address for the quai doc?

    Thanks,

    purcey
  6. purcey

    purcey New Member

    Thanks for the info. It is really confusing as one place it says don't take mag with quai, another says yes. What is the address for the quai doc?

    Thanks,

    purcey
  7. purcey

    purcey New Member

    I use it all the time. Duh--

    Thanks,

    purcey
  8. Jude

    Jude New Member

    Sorry you are having a bad day. You can still take antioxidents. I did not have enough information from Purcy to give a long response. I take additional Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid). Most companies are manufacturing Vitamin C supplements with rosehips and will say so on the bottle. It is the rosehips that compete for the same receptors that the guai does therefore blocking the guai. I take 400 IU of Vitamin E a day from ProHealth that is not a problem. I also use magnesium glycinate. I use 1200mg calcium citrate. The magnesium in ZMA is from a plant source and has caused blocking for some.

    From my own personal experience rosehips in a Vitamin C supplement caused me more blocking than anything else that I've taken. This was not in a multivitamin but additional Vitamin C tablets.

    Jude
    [This Message was Edited on 01/11/2003]
  9. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Claudia, the Nurse at Guaidoc, wrote back to me this morning and told me that: " Minerals, in any form, are OK with Guai."
    I looked at many vitamin bottles, and saw no mention of whether the C was from RoseHips or not, so how can you tell? I am guessing, by price. The more expensive ones are higher quality, and therefore more likely to be from rosehips, since that is a more natural source. BTW, Claudia said "you can still take antioxidants". But, I'm sure we are still not supposed to take natural E, so I am supplementing my fake E with lots of wheat germ, so I get some of the natural. Not only does the body not absorb fake E as well, but it treats it as an alien substance and trys to flush it out faster. In order to get the 400 IU's I need for my heart, I must take 1,200 IU's of fake E.
    Klutzo
    P.S. Thanks, Jude, for the clarification.
    [This Message was Edited on 01/12/2003]
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Basically, supplements are OK if they are not plant derived. Unfortunately, the magnesium in ZMA is derived from veggies, so it can block the Guai; it did block it for me.

    Most minerals are OK to take and Vitamin C is OK as long as it's not derived from rose hips. I don't think either Vitamin A or Viatmin E is plant derived. Antioxidants are usually OK and are an important part of our health.

    Dr. St. A advised people to stop taking supplements when they first start so that there is not chance of something blocking. I think after the initial Guai flare and cycling, it is good to add supplements back in one at a time. Many of us can use the Guai with a little bit of sals anyway, but everyone is different.

    It takes a while to be sure when the Guai is being blocked, so adding supplements very slowly is a good idea.

    The things which obviously block are the herbal supplements and they should be avoided.

    Love, Mikie
  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Everything I've read says you can't take natural vitamin E while on Guai, but must take synthetic. In otherwords, you must take "d-l alpha-tocopherol" instead of "d alpha tocopherol". The "l" is what makes it synthetic. Any decent multi-vitamin will have both natural E and C from rosehips, as well as bioflavonoids, so you need to use the cheap brands while on this.....better than nothing. I can tell if I go for more than 2 days without a B vitamin supp., in spite of my healthy diet, I can really feel it.
    BTW, I think I am having my first Guai flare, but am not sure how severe it has to be to count. My last new symptom, which was intense pain in my left shoulder blade and down my left arm due to a bone spur, was resolved by physical therapy, and I still do the exercises I was taught at home. I've been fine for almost a year now, but all of a sudden it is killing me again....is this how it works, or should I be completely bed-ridden?
    My copy of Dr. St. Amand's book has still not arrived. Things take SO long to go through the mail since 9/11.
    Thanks, KLutzo
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Thanks for the info. I do know that any vitamin must be the synthetic form. I do not use a multi vitamin all the time. Most of the vitamins I take are individual vitamins which are not plant derived. I'm not very good at taking them, to tell the truth. I do notice a difference if I do not take my Vitamin C. It's also possible that because I can tolerate some sals that some supplements do not bother me even though they contain some sals. Some people cannot tolerate any sals at all.

    Love, Mikie