Which whey?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by TwinMa, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    For those of you who use whey protein powder, which one do you use?

    I've been using Jarrow Whey Protein for several years. I add a scoop to my morning shake. It supplies amino acids and is supposed to be good for the immune system (along with other benefits). I couldn't do without my shake in the morning.

    I thought I might try a different brand just to see if I got any added benefits, but there are a million brands out there! I walked into a vitamin store today and the entire back wall was whey protein powders.

    If you use whey, which one do you use and are you happy with it?

    [This Message was Edited on 10/11/2008]
  2. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    One is simply a protein shake.

    The one which is so helpful for improving glutathione is the undenatured whey sold here. I have used the ImmunPlex for years. It should not be mixed with anything but water or milk or it could lose its benefits.

    Love, Mikie
  3. cordy250

    cordy250 Member

    just make sure that the mik or whey powder is not of chinese origin. Too many of their products are contaminated with melamine.
  4. redhummingbird

    redhummingbird New Member

    That a whey! :)

    I agree with what Mikie said.
  5. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Aren't they pretty much two different things with different benefits?

    Undenatured whey (like the Immunplex sold here at ProHealth) is to increase glutathione levels for improved immune function and detoxification. It should be mixed in water or milk and should be taken at least 30 minutes before eating in the morning.

    Regular whey protein (like the Jarrow) can be mixed in a smoothie/shake to get protein into the diet and is good for the digestive tract as well as the immune system. Some claim it also has anti-cancer properties.


    At this time, I am looking for the kind of whey you just toss into a shake.

    At some point, I will try the ImmunPlex. I even have some sitting on my shelf, but just haven't tried it yet!

  6. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, all.

    There are actually 3 types of whey protein.

    There's the cheapest commercial type that comes in the big plastic jars, for example. This whey is a byproduct of cheesemaking (note that the curds fraction goes into the cheese, and the whey fraction is a byproduct, which used to be thrown away, until Dr. Gustavo Bounous discovered what good protein there is in whey, and it then became a valuable product instead of an environmental nightmare). This type of whey has been heated and acid treated during that process, so that some of the proteins have been denatured. They still have the same amino acids, so they are still beneficial for protein nutrition, and whey protein in general is the highest quality protein for humans, in terms of the mix of amino acids. It's better than egg protein, which used to be considered the best, and it's also better than whole milk protein, which includes casein, the protein in the curds fraction of milk.

    The second type is "undenatured" whey protein, also called a whey protein "isolate." This is a step up from the regular commercial type. It is still a byproduct of cheesemaking, but the smaller protein fragments have been filtered out. There is really no such thing as being able to "undenature" a protein that has been denatured by heating and acid treatment, but you can filter out the ones that have been damaged the most.

    The third type is the truly nondenatured or native whey protein, sometimes called a whey protein "concentrate." This protein is not a byproduct of cheesemaking. It has not been heated to normal pasteurization temperatures, and it has not been acid-treated. The more sensitive immunoglobulins and lactoferrin are still present, and the other proteins have not been damaged. The important thing about this type is that the natural cysteine in the whey has not been oxidized to cystine. The reason this is important is that the liver cells can import cysteine, but do not import cystine very well. The liver is normally the main producer of glutathione in the body, and cysteine is the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione. So if the goal is to boost glutathione, then the nondenatured or native type whey is the one to be preferred. The body can use cystine, but to be used by the liver to make glutathione, it has to be absorbed by the kidneys, reduced to cysteine, put back into the blood, and then some is picked up from the blood by the liver. So it's much less direct process. People can often tell the difference in the effects of the two types. Some PWCs cannot tolerate the third type because it is more potent. Others find that it helps them much more.

    There are also some compromise products that are primarily the second type, but they have had some things like lactoferrin added back in, so that they sound more like the third type, but their cysteine has been oxidized to cystine.

    I'm not going to mention any product names, to avoid getting in trouble with the moderators, but you can evaluate individual products based on the above descriptions.

    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2008]
  7. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Thanks, Rich, for the info. As always, very helpful.

    Love, Mikie
  8. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Thank you for that helpful info Rich! Excellent descriptions.

    3 types of whey protein:

    1) Cheapest commercial type (the big plastic jars)

    2) "Undenatured" whey protein isolate (ProHealth ImmunPlex would be this type)

    3) Nondenatured or Native whey protein concentrate

    Rich - Do you consider there to be a benefit to taking the first type of whey--the big plastic jar type--beyond a good source of protein?
  9. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, Twinma.

    I don't know of additional benefits for the cheaper, commercial grade of whey protein other than that it is a high quality nutritional protein for humans based on its amino acids make-up. I took it for several years in a nutritional drink I make. More recently I've switched to a nondenatured type, though I realize that this is not the best way to take this type, because mixing it with other things can cause some denaturation, and you lose some of the advantage of this type of whey protein. But that's what I do.(;-)

  10. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I appreciate your response, Rich. Thanks to everyone else who responded, too! Thanks Mikie and others.

    I make a nutritional shake, too. Mine has apple, banana, cranberry sauce, molasses, frozen fruit (strawberries, cherries, pineapple, blueberries), whey protein, ground flax and a pinch of Benefiber. Off and on I put other things in there, too, but that's the basics.

    Rich, I'd love to know what is in your nutritional drink. Care to share?
  11. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, Twinma.

    Yes, I'll share my "recipe," but please don't take it as a model, because it's tailored to my particular health situation. I don't have CFS or FM. I'm fairly healthy, but I do have a couple of issues. One is that there are a couple of disks in my lower back that aren't in the best condition. I'm not sure my attempts at helping them nutritionally are really doing any good, but I try, nevertheless.:)-). Exercise helps more than anything else I've found so far. Also, my gut tends toward small bowel blockages (because of adhesions caused by rectal cancer surgery 10 years ago), so some fiber is important to keep things moving. That's probably a lot more information than you wanted, but it may help to explain why I take certain things.

    I take a nutritional shake, and also a bunch of supplement pills, at least on the days I get around to it.

    Here's what I put in the shake:

    An apple or a banana (mainly for the potassium, but there is also pectin in the apple and some fiber in the banana. It also helps the taste.)

    A handful of blueberries (these have good antioxidants).

    Whey protein (Lately I'm using a nondenatured type, but this is not the best way to take it.) I use a couple of scoops.

    A packet of gelatin (This is an attempt to help build collagen in my disks. I doubt if it is working, but it does make my fingernails grow faster! I don't think it does all that much for my hair, but then, I'm an old guy!)

    Psyllium husks (This is a good fiber for my gut. I use two or three heaping teaspoons).

    I used to put flax oil into the shake, but at the moment I'm taking capsules for the omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids.

    Yogurt (I just use a live-culture yogurt, nothing special, a couple of heaping tablespoons.) This supplies some good bacteria as well as some protein and other nutrients.

    Some orange juice

    Some milk (I don't have a problem with lactose or casein.)

    I blend this at low speed and for as short a time as I can, to avoid getting a lot of air bubbles, which can cause me gut problems.

    Together with this I take a pile of supplement pills, and I haven't obsessed over which ones and what dosages as much as I probably should. I think I would get in trouble with the moderators if I specified the product names, so I won't, but I take a lot of different things.


  12. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Thanks for posting what goes into your shake, Rich.

    I feel the same way about my shake--it's not for everyone. I have customized mine for my particular needs. I have FM, but not CFS. I really feel that this shake helped me get past the constant pain. It helped even out my whole GI tract--and that's a GOOD thing!

    I make an entire blender full of shake in the morning (5 cups). I drink half of it in the morning and 1/4 of it at lunch. I drink the last 1/4 when I get home from work.

    I have put quite a variety of things in there over the years--coconut oil, flax seed oil, green food supplement, Vit C crystals, etc. It is a good way to get things into yourself all in one go. For a time, I even added 3-4 spinach leaves right at the beginning. It was actually quite good, although it made the entire shake green, which was a bit unappealing.

    I sympathize with you over the adhesions. I know about adhesions all too well. My daughter (age 14) had a number of gut surgeries when she was just a baby, and now we are looking at another possible surgery due to adhesion problems. Unfortunately, if you cut one adhesion, two more will pop up in it's place! So we are stuck between a bit of a rock and a hard place.

    Thank you for sharing your shake recipe and some of your own personal background. It always helps to know why someone is taking what they are taking!