who is really willing to drastically change diet to get better?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Catseye, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Okay, broken up!
    I was totally incapacitated and felt like I was dying all the time until I went to a chiropractor and he gave me a pamphlet about cfs and food intolerance. I had been eating some organic foods but I still thought I was eating healthy. I couldn't have been more wrong.

    Everything we've learned about food has been basically a lie. As soon as I gave up wheat and dairy, I started to feel better. It didn't matter one bit that I was eating organic wheat and dairy. Wheat has been bred by man to have more gluten in it to hold bread together and it can gum up your intestines and milk is so processed, your immune system recognizes the proteins as foreign invaders rather than food. I had been eating these things all my life,

    I was 37 when I got sick. It was my liver overwhelmed from hep c and bad food. After looking up everything on food for the past 4 years, I have realized all the stuff I used to love wasn't just not good for me but was doing damage.

    Let's take 2 American favorites even though they are Italian: pizza and spaghetti. Our livers are overwhelmed because of toxins and also malnourished. When you eat starch (wheat in pizza crust or noodles) you begin digestion in the mouth and you need an alkaline environment to digest it in the stomach. Tomato sauce is acidic. The meat needs an acid environment to digest it so your body makes acid in the stomach. When you mix all this together in the stomach, they (acids and alkaline) neutralize each other and can't really digest the food. Even worse, they begin to spoil and produce poisons because the bacteria in your stomach and intestines are eating your meal instead of you and they put out poisonous waste in your system. So not only do you not digest and get all the nutrients, you get bacterial garbage from these foods. You can apply this to every meal where you are mixing starch and protein: hamburgers, steak and potato, etc.

    If you look up "food combining", it will explain what digests with what and why. It's inconvenient as hell, but it really works. If you aren't in bad enough shape, you probably aren't having big enough digestion problems to notice. But you are still malnourished from incomplete digestion.

    Okay, now that I've ruined dinner for everyone, how many people are willing to really, really eat the right things in the right way to feel better? I'm the one with cfs but my husband is in bad shape and he refuses to change his horrible food habits.

    My liver doctor let me suffer in bed for a year and a half because he insisted my liver was just fine. After a year and a half of agony, I was more than willing to do whatever it took to feel better, even giving up all the food I loved to eat. Are you? just curious, karen
    [This Message was Edited on 11/12/2006]
    [This Message was Edited on 11/12/2006]
  2. msSusan

    msSusan Member

    I agree that changing your diet can help quite a bit even though it is very difficult (mentally!) to do this. I do not combine my foods in any special way other than making sure I get enough protein in every meal.

    I get very achy when I eat things like wheat, spelt, millet, barley (and other grains) even though I tested negative for celiac disease. I also have a hard time with sugar including whole fruits, caffeine (including chocolate!) and even small amounts of alcohol. I have taken an IGg test and eggs were at the top of the list to NOT eat along with peanuts, soy, corn. Wheat was actually a "rotate" food but I get achy even with a few servings a week.

    I try to rotate the foods I do eat and do feel better if I stick to the restrictions. It's still a work in progress but worth the effort.
  3. bmadan

    bmadan New Member

    Hi Karen,

    I know that I need to eat "healthier" to help (1) lose my excess weight, (2) fuel my body with only good natural products, and (3) with my ulcers.

    Back 2 years ago when I eliminated all the fried, unhealthy junk from my diet to lose the 50+ pounds I have now re-gained, I had never felt better in my life.

    I enjoyed eating fruits, vegtables, lean cuts of meat, etc. If I tasted a piece of cake of a piece of fried chicken, it was so gross to my pallet. Now, it's the opposite.

    I don't know how drastic I can go and still stick to it, but I am determined to change and improve my eating habits for my health.

    I am open to learning more about what I should and shouldn't be eating.

    Barbara :)
    [This Message was Edited on 11/12/2006]
  4. nerdieduckie

    nerdieduckie New Member

    Well, I already gave up wheat, which I thought would be awful but it isn't so bad. That helped me feel better some. I've also been almost anything with partially hydrogenated oils, but sometimes I do give myself a treat during the day, but only one thing.

    I don't eat much of anything with soy unless it's far down on the list, because it seems anything with too much soy makes me feel strange. I hardly eat sugary foods anymore, my body just doesn't want them most of the time.

    I don't think I could give EVERYTHING up though. My mum read a cookbook of a woman with FM though and she only ate natural things and nothing processed, and she said it helped her a lot, so we may end up doing that because I'm still having a lot of trouble. I really don't want to though.

    It's a really difficult idea. I feel like I shouldn't have to give up anything else because I've already given up many things I like (besides food) to this stupid disease. At the same time though, if I knew for sure I would feel better and be able to do what I wanted, I'd do it ASAP. So for me, it's hard to say.
  5. karinaxx

    karinaxx New Member

    i am glad that you brought this up.
    most of the oldtimers here on the board have changed their diet drastically and felt much much better.
    but when ever the themes comes up, than there seems to be a lot of people, who dont understand how important this issue is.

    i live in India, the land where natural eating habits are still the norm. but sadly it is changing and aryuveda and yoga knowlegde, which has been the root of healthy eating, seems to appeal more to the western mind, than to the people, who have such a old and full- of- wisdom tradition.

    anyhow, the first thing you learn in Aryurveda and Yoga diet: all processed foods are the first reason for bad health. and when they say processed food, thant they mean anything which is not in its orginal state, like wheat (bread,pasta), sugar, ect.

    another important factor are fats; all oels and of course cheese and other fatty things are not in the kitchen!(that includes olive oel and coconut oel!)
    they use only ghee, in a very small amount, that means nearly nothing and that never heated!!!!!!
    (butter is used in some ayurveda cooking for certain doshas, but again is small amounts)

    this are only the basics.

    than there is fasting. a very important tool, for most situations.
    in ayurveda used as a healing tool and a way to detox.

    in ayurveda and yoga, they are convinced, that we are all eating to much in these days.
    rule when you eat; one quarter rice, one for vegis, one for legumes and one you leave empty.
    water you dont drink with the food or after, because it kills the digestive fire.

    again , this are just basics and there is a lot more to it.

    my experience is that if i stick to this rules, i do feel soooooo much better.
    but honestly, i am having a hard time with it at times and have to pay for it.

    i also want to add, that a juice fasting day, done at the right time, can make a huge difference. and here i want to add: some people think , we with cfids, are to weak to fast.
    it is the poison (processed food and to much) which makes us weaker and giving your digestive organs a brake, is most of the time very usefull.
    of course , you have to have a feel for your body and you can do only a small fast or take a rice soup with it, which again helps to detox very efectivly.

    now, dont missunderstand me, i dont think this alone will solve all the problems, but it will most certainly help!

    it is widly known that cfids and fm patients, have a large scale of food intolerances and some seem to be predominant, like gluten, eggs, cheese and i think oels (especially chemically processed oels), so it would make sense to try to figure out what becomes you and not and stick as much as possible to the diet described.

    Rich Carlso, the founder of this site, has stated himself, that juicing has helped him more than all the supplements together and this means something, he, after all is selling them.

    conclusion: be aware of what you put into your body!!!

    love and hugs


    FOYBOYFOY New Member

    this is such and important subject, as i read more the more im convinced its imparative we change our eating habits. i quit drinking milk a year ago and my ibs is 90% better. dairy products and refined sugars are like eating inflamation. inflamation is a major issure with anyone with autoammiune issues. im convinced but man is it hard to change. it will be a life long battle because we all like to eat crap !!!!!!!!!!!GOD BLESS FOY
  7. Rosiebud

    Rosiebud New Member

    just putting this on my profile for later.

    I'm trying hard with the now wheat, no dairy, no sugar but it is SO difficult as my body craves these things.

  8. ksp56

    ksp56 Member

    If I eat cetain foods, my body pays. When I elimanate much of the above, my body reacts favorably. Not that I am 'back to normal', but I do feel better.

    My body simply, cannot break down many types of food. I find, when I am stay on track with what I am eating, I do feel better. I do need to be more in control of what I eat, and help my body due it's job.

    Good topic! While this might not help everyone, it in turn, has helped many. Thank you for sharing your experience!

    [This Message was Edited on 11/13/2006]
  9. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Some of the best tasting things I've come across are dehydrated foods. Not just fruits or vegetables, but cookies and crisps made with raw nuts, olive oil, spices, etc. If you feel good enough, look into raw food recipe books and dehydrator recipes. They will satisfy all these cravings, you just learn to substitute. It does take some work but if you have a husband or wife or someone who can do the prep work, most of it is just drying time in a dehydrator. You use it to save the enzymes which are destroyed by heat but if you're in a pinch, you can use your oven on the lowest setting.

    Here's some of my favorites as examples:

    Veggie crisps: potato, carrot and zucchini. I use a spiral slicer to get them small like angel hair but you can just slice paper thin. Soak in lemon juice and water for a couple hours, then mix with little olive oil, curry and cumin and put in the dehydrator overnight. I eat these everyday sprinkled with sea salt, they're so good. And I don't normally like vegetables.

    cookies: sunflower seeds soaked overnight (to remove enzyme inhibitors, this is why all beans and seeds are soaked, it isn't to "soften" them) then ground in food processor, chopped dates, vanilla and cinammon. Mix and form cookie shapes and dehydrate overnight. Sweet and filling.

    raw spaghetti: spiral slice some zucchini so it's like angel hair and then make a tomato sauce by putting the following in a food processor: tomatos, onion, garlic, salt and pepper, yellow pepper. It's like spaghetti salad, you eat it like spaghtetti, it has the same consistency and it's great!

    These are simple ones just to show you how to maybe get started. You can google for raw recipes and dehydrator recipes and come up with anything from stuff like entree meatloaf made from nuts and veggies to desserts made with fresh fruits and nuts. The more you eat healthy food, the better it tastes, literally!

    These together with raw juicing are the healthies things you can put in your body. Raw recipes can get pretty complicated with tons of ingredients, I promise you won't be bored. There are even raw recipes my husband will eat but I've found I can't tell him what's in them. He says they taste different when they contain something he knows (or thinks) he doesn't like.

    I found this whole new side of "uncooking" when I was forced to change my diet and the more I tried to find healthy recipes, the more I was steered to raw foods. Some pointers about raw: if your stomach is having trouble digesting, watch out for centrifugal juicers. They are the cheaper ones but they leave alot of the cellulose with the juice and it's hard on the stomach for some of us. Make sure you soak all nuts, beans and seeds before you use them, whether you're going to cook them or not. They have enzyme inhibitors in them that keep them in "hibernation" and that's the reason for beans being so "musical" when you body is trying to digest them.

    thanks for listening, karen

  10. karinaxx

    karinaxx New Member

    i just checked out your profile (your recipes did not sound american!!!) and saw that you too live in an exotic place and we are both karens (original my name is karin)

    thanks for this really fun raw food rec.p.
    you have more in store?

    from the other side of the world
  11. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Hi, one of my only friends left in the states is from India. He has turned my on to Indian cooking and that's why I tend to use the recipes that have a lot of curry and cumin. I can't get turmeric here but he sent me some along with some other Indian spices and I should have them any day now. Another favorite I eat almost everyday but is cooked is curried garbanzo beans with potatos. I have several raw food recipe books. You can pretty much make up your own cookies with different nuts, coconut and flax seeds as the base ingredient. Then use dates and raisins as sweeteners and vanilla and cinammon for spices.

    There are so many different combinations and then they get complicated with nut and seed cheeses that you partially ferment and use with more complicated recipes. Right now, my maid does all my prep work for me but I'm improving pretty fast now and then I'll be able to help her with the hard stuff. She doesn't speak any English so I've had to learn Spanish pretty quick and still can't get into many complicated explanations. For right now, I am only having her make different cookies, the veggie crisps and salads.

    Another great cookie recipe mixture is macadamia nuts, coconut and dates. Chop them up in the food processor and then flatten out like pancakes and put in the dehydrator.

    I really miss bread and crackers. You can make flax seed crackers with veggies that taste more like a cracker than a veggie and they satisfy the desire for something crispy. I can't remember the recipe and my other computer crashed that had it but it had like beets and carrots mixed in the soaked seeds and then dehydrated. It sounds totally revolting but they were really good. If I googled for it I'd probably find it. There are lots of sites for raw food with tons of recipes.

    I didn't eat much raw food before these recipes and the taste is really hard to imagine until you start trying them. You can't tell from the ingredients how it's going to taste until you get used to the taste of "raw food". Like the flax seed crackers with beets. I hate beets, they're totally disgusting. The only reason I tried it was because I happened to have some beets from trying to juice them (which gagged me) and I was dying of curiosity. The book said how good they were, even though it was beets. They were great.

    If you're giving up stuff you like to the point you are missing too many things, then raw food is the way to go. There are tons of recipe books and web pages. You can make substitutes for ice cream, puddings, crackers and cakes using nuts, fruits and spices.

    Okay, now I'm tired and hungry, see ya later, karen

  12. BlueSky555

    BlueSky555 New Member

    Wow, this is what you call "willpower". I try to eat right but I have never juiced and it's difficult for me to eat raw vegetables.

    Question: what about skim milk? Is this ok or still in the dairy? What about "fiber one" cereal? Is this ok?

    I wish I could do this but I don't even know where to begin. It sounds so complicated. I'm not overweight but would like to eat the things I need to improve my health.

    I think I get confused because I thought we were supposed to eat so much protein, dairy, veggies, etc.

    Thank you for the post; I'm glad this is working for you and maybe I can find some info on this,

  13. shar6710

    shar6710 New Member

    I'm not trying to disagree with you and I'm glad this does work for you but I want to ponder some things "out loud":

    Before I became sick I had a garden, I grew and ate fresh asparagus, lettuces, 3 kinds of tomatos, peppers, squash, herbs, green beans, eggplant, onions, strawberries and raspberries. I feel that I ate pretty healthfully.

    Now, sometimes I have no choice but to live on frozen dinners. Yet I tend to recover and start eating more fresh food as I am able and then crash again.

    So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't seem to see a correlation between what I eat and how I feel. Except wheat, I gave it up and have much less gas. But not more energy.

    Now of course I haven't gone "raw" and some of your recipes sound really good. I even have a dehydrater. But how do you get well enough to have the energy to do all these things? You say you have help but I have to wonder that if you are doing so well why you need help. Are you so well you can work and so you need help around the house?

    Please, please do not take this wrong. I'm just wondering how I can get well enough to eat better when it seems to involve so much work. I am already trying to eat more fruit and fresh vegetables (because I LIKE them) But if you have to go "cold turkey" and switch all at once I don't see how I can do that.

    Now I have to go back to bed since I needed to an hour ago.

  14. kholmes

    kholmes New Member

    I am disabled with CFS, but eating well has been the only treatment that has really helped me function better. I eat about 60% raw during the winter and about 75% during the summer. I also have one 100% raw day a week. In addition, my wife makes me daily fresh veggie juices.

    I do eat rice, chicken, fish, pasta, brown rice bread, and beef on occasion.

    I have tried a number of raw recipes in the past, especially raw spaghetti and raw crackers.

    For me, nothing has helped me recover from a severe relapse a year and a half ago. But eating well reduces my pain, clears my head, lifts depression, and helps me deal with being disabled better.
  15. evol_or_revert

    evol_or_revert New Member

    it was hard but im most of the way there, I eat bad food and I feel really bad.

    I no longer eat dairy and I looooove cheese,

    I no longer eat wheat.

    I also dont eat anything with more then 10g of sugar per serving.

    I can't eat oranges either.

    I do go off track sometimes and I pay for it. but Im pretty good most of the time. Finding new stuff that tastes great and i can still eat is so fun :D.

    You do need a treat every now and then

  16. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Dear Shar, I still can't work. To be brief, I've been up and down the past 4 years because I kept trying a couple of things at a time and crashing when I felt better because I'd do too much. This year, after spending the entire summer in bed after a major relapse, I got really mad and combed the internet until I found Cheney's and Titelbaum's protocols for cfs.

    They are both doctors that are very familiar with cfs, Titelbaum even had it. I went and had some tests done about hormone levels and stuff but like all previous bloodwork, everything was totally normal. I was really pissed off about letting myself get so bad so I got about 90% of the supplements these guys recommended, everything from alpha lipoic acid to TMG and started taking them and eating more vegetables.

    I had taken most of the supplements before, never all of them together, but this time I took everything. I figured they are going to work or I'm just going to die this time, I had really just had it with everything. I took them all and started to feel better in 2 days. Now I am still stuck at home but I'm feeling really good. I just have to get my strength back up. My muscles are miniscule and I don't have much stamina but I'm walking around and can read almost as much as I want on the computer. I am convinced, in my case anyway, everything started with my liver and malnutrition and it couldn't detoxify my body properly. Then, one by one, major body systems started to deteriorate and fail.

    I haven't felt this good since I've been ill and I'm convinced one day I'll be back to normal as long as I don't cheat with food again and pay attention to my liver above all else. I had to sell the business, our home and everything. We came to the Dominican Republic from GA because a full time maid is affordable and we can live off my disability here.

    Cheney is a genius. He and Titelbaum have alot of recommendations in common but Cheney tends to explain stuff more. Look for his complete protocol, not just single articles. Make sure it talks about Phase 1-3 and treatments 1-6. It's very long but it explains a lot. He mentions some drugs but I have just used all the supplements and don't plan on any of the drugs. The only supplements I haven't started on with yet are like the IP6 and transfer factors.

    I went through his big article, it almost killed me and I crashed the next day from it but I wrote everything down and most of it I already had. The rest I ordered. I'm going to list all the supplements I take here for anyone interested or who can't read a long article. I can't explain the use, that would be too long but don't underestimate importance. Look up everything before you take it so you know what you're getting:

    electrolyte stamina solution (very important)
    magnesium (very important)
    amino acid blend whey protein
    Titelbaum's daily energy enfusion
    krebs cycle chelate minerals
    fish oil pills
    flax seed oil pills
    primrose oil pills
    co Q 10 (oil base that's absorbable)
    alpha lipoic acid
    acetyl l carnitine (very important)
    phosphatidyl choline
    b12 shots (very important)
    b complex
    pancreatin and betaine hcl for digestion (very important)
    msm (very important)
    tmg (very important)
    extra aminos: methionine, sam e, arginine, ornithine, nac, lysine
    milk thistle
    liver cleanse and support pills

    At first, this freaked me out because it was so many pills but I figured do or die plus these are all chemicals that are used by the body, anyway, except for the last 5. The only 2 I hadn't tried before were msm and tmg. I wish I had a long time ago. Most of these are produced in the liver so obviously, my liver isn't working like it should. I may have to take these for a long time or forever but we'll just have to see! I can read, walk and talk normal now, finally.
  17. shar6710

    shar6710 New Member

    Thanks for the info. I'm glad you are doing better on this protocol. I haven't loooked at Cheneys total program but I will.

    I've only been going through this for 21/2 yrs now and I swear I can't see any correlation between what I do or eat and how I feel sometimes. So far I have crashed every Aug and gotten better April through June.

    I do take what I consider to be a fairly long list of "stuff" but certainly not as long as the list you posted. I just started transfer factors about a month ago and while I haven't noticed dramatic improvemant I have noticed a few things have changed for the better. I'm going to stay on them to see if it's just a normal change in symptoms or if I'm actually getting better.

    I hope you don't think that I totally disagree with you. I do believe we need to eat healthy. I'm not convinced that means going raw but I do think it means staying away from processed foods as much as possible. And when I'm well enough I'd like to try some of the veggie chips and "cookies".

    I am curious about the Whey protein: what do you take yours with? Mine says to take with dairy or dairy substitute.

    I do appreciate the info and keep it up, maybe all you raw foodies will convince me someday:>)

  18. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Hi, the whey pills I take are just whey protein concentrate. They have little or no casein or lactose so the dairy intolerance doesn't matter for me. I had tried Imunoplex, one of the denatured whey proteins that was supposed to increase glutathione but I tried just a couple of teaspoons instead of a scoop one morning and sneezed my head off beginning that afternoon. I think it had too much casein. I use Nature's Best Perfect Amino Acids. The only problem for some would be these are mega-gigantic horse pills so you may want to get powder form. Since it's practically predigested, I don't worry about what I'm taking it with, even an empty stomach is fine. I usually take about 10-20 grams during a day, I don't really have a schedule. It's got readily usable amino acids that really make me feel good. They seem to be compatible with everything. best wishes, karen
  19. shar6710

    shar6710 New Member

    Yeah mine's powdered maybe I'll try the pills.

  20. monkeykat

    monkeykat Member

    Hi barrowinnovations,
    I was so ill 2 years ago that I was bedridden most of the day and could only bathe once a week and couldn't even peel a carrot b/c I'd end up in 10+ pain and I couldn't stir a pot b/c I would get too weak to even stir. My brain fog was so bad I couldn't remember what I was doing or how to follow directions.

    All this to say that it has taken many years of seeing an alternative practitioner to get to a point that I could make a salad for lunch. I'm at a point where I can make a salad for lunch and dinner now but not everyday. I try to hard to function but it takes all my energy to try to eat as healthy as I can.

    I would like to follow Rich Carson's advice from Dale Figtree. I ordered her DVD but I do not have enough energy each day to try to juice. I wish I did b/c I'd like to try it.

    It's just so hard to know what will help and what won't.

    It's also depressing letting go of unhealthy foods but YES I am definitely willing and trying my hardest to eat my best each day as I have energy to do it.

    Keep hope alive,