Whole Health Chicago Dr. David Edelberg?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by munch1958, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    Does anyone have any info about this doctor? He's on the good doctor list on this board. My pharmacist recommended him because he seems knowledgeable about compounded B-HRT.
    I have an appointment in 2 weeks. I'm beyond frustrated with the FFC.

  2. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    My apointment was moved up a week due to a cancelation. Must be Karma, since I was feeling so down I didn't know how I was going to hang in there for another 2 weeks. If I knew what the crying jags were all about it wouldn't be so bad.

    The funny thing is when I felt great in the early summer, I was walking around the mall just to see what's new. It was not the usual power shop trip. Run in grab what I need and run back out.

    I found myself wanting social contact once again. I was getting my hair styled, eybrows shaped, a mani. a pedi, a facial, a message, etc. and ENJOYING IT. Years had gone by where the simpliest innocent touch or pat on the back would cause pain.

    I was sending off those don't hug me and touch me vibes because I hurt all over. It felt so good not to be that way any more! I was even craving cuddling up with my husband. I was excited that I wasn't getting hot flashes from the contact.

    My pharmacist gave me the recommendation to Dr. Edelberg. So far I'm impressed with their website especially the hypothyroidism, CF & FM sections: wholehealthchicago.com/healthconcerns.htm
    The list of altertative practitioners looks great too.

    I wouldn't be in the position of having to look for a new doc right now. The one I've been seeing for 15 years dumped me because of FFC. He was feeling too threatened about the FFC introducing things he hadn't heard of yet like Reverse T3.

    The first GYN my pharmacist referred me to flat out told me he couldn't help me. He returned my copay check and medical records back to me. He said he couldn't help me and implied that I was a crazy one becase I wanted my lab results to fall at the top of the bell curve distribution rather than the bottom.

    He looked at me like I had two heads when I said the healty people probably tested up in the top range. Way down here where my numbers are at -- I'm with the sickies! I didn't dare to push my luck by asking him where in his class did he graduate in medical school.

    The past few days, I ate a few too many organic dark chocolate bars to get me over my FFC disappointment. I've spent the past 3 days researching supplements, meds and herbs for things to try next. I think Epicor looks very promising so I've got a bottle on its way. Milk Thistle & Thyro Complex are other orders I've placed.

    I'm finishing up my second bottle of Olive Leaf Extract --$10 (250 mg. 3x). I've also found Source Natural Mushroom Defense for $14.00 a bottle. I think these have done more for me than 5 bottles of Leuko-Stim.

    The AV ingredients in the Super Viral Plus IV are Thymus substance and Glycyyrrhiinate. These can be purchased at better prices separately. I'd like to try the "Pro Boost" product on this board but maltodextrin worries me since I'm corn intolerant.

    I reactly badly to Cor-Valen-M so I'm not going to push my luck with supplements that I know are corn based. D-Ribose made me very witchy and irritible. I was snapping at everyone for no reason. I'm going to try the Life Extension brand instead.

    How is your vitamin D status? I've gone up to 4,000 IU on that from 2,000 IU. I herxed on 1,000 IU for the first month. Have you read the FWIW Protocol? I've copied it below as it does give some valuable ideas on how to build up defenses before the attack on pathogens. This is something I wish the FFCs had done for me.

    Best of luck with your upcoming move!

    ======= FWIW Protocol =======
    The following describes a "For What's It Worth" or "Zero-Based Protocol" representing the scenario of my coming down with CFIDS, with the knowledge and experiences that I now have and assuming a physician who knows nothing about CFIDS except that it is devastating, willing to do tests and willing to prescribe reasonable items based on test results. The following is a general outline of this approach. This is intended to treat the disease and not the host of symptoms. You will find links to more details in the right margin -->.

    Alternative Names: "For What it is Worth Protocol","No Deficiency Left Behind Protocol"

    Stage One: Restoring the Immunity Response
    The following tests could be used as an early-CFIDS diagnosis panel (i.e. before 6 months)

    Tests to determine if you have a TH1 or TH2 illness. CFIDS/GWI/MCS/RA are TH2 illnesses.
    Expected Results: TH2 biased Immune System (for testing)
    Measuring if you have typical deficiencies. See Deficiences
    A significant number of deficiencies are found
    The first stage assumes that you have become sufficiently deficient in some nutrient used by the immune system so that it is unable to mount an effective defense against the infection. This is not unexpected given the tendency for mal-absorption and Irritable Bowel Syndrome. The most likely deficiency is Vitamin D. It is essential to get this important moderator of the immune system up to at least the bottom of the optimal range. The deficiency table gives suggestions of the amount of supplementation suggested to return the immune system to an effective level. After 6 weeks, you should start to add non-denatured whey. This will provide a variety of amino acids and other nutrients to complement the vitamins. At 12-24 weeks, I would recommend at least a one month trial of Recuperat-ion (http://www.recuperat-ion.com/) - stopping any other mineral supplements while trying it, starting at a low dosage and working up to 4 times/day - this particular formulation appears to have some unique positive impacts.

    Duration: Until your Vitamin D level reaches 108 nmol/l (43 ng/ml) and you have stopped herxing. Some people may not herx -- herx seems to be specific to certain pathogens only.

    Change of Symptoms Expected
    Herxing is the most likely effect. It will likely start 1 hr after taking Vitamin D/Calcium and last 2-4 hrs. You may wish to measure your temperature (an ear thermometer is suggested) every hour, some people will see a rise of temperature going with the herxing. This is totally natural because it is how the body fights most infections -- raising the body's temperature. If you have a temperature response -- you are lucky because by monitoring the temperature pattern you can keep the herxing in a reasonable comfort zone (i.e. you can see when the herx starts to decrease and not take more until you see the decline) and it can be used to determine when you have stop herxing.

    Stage Two: Determine surviving pathogens
    Entry Test: Vitamin D level at 108 nmol/l (43 ng/ml)
    Exit Tests:
    CFIDS PCR Panel for Pathogens
    Expected Results: one or more pathogens found
    ISAC Panel for Coagulation
    Two or more items outside of the normal range
    Hereditary Coagulation Factors
    One or more Hereditary factor
    Once you have reached the optimal vitamin D level and appear to have stopped herxing, we proceed to expose the surviving pathogen by removing fibrin and other coagulation deposits which may be shielding it. We do this by introducing fibrin dissolving enzymes. The following assumes the use of bromelain (the cheapest and also one of the most effective). Bromelain is measured in GDU, the goal is to slowly increase bromelain until you get to 18000 GDU or more. At this time, you may wish to also add for 1-2 weeks, some of the following:

    Serrapeptase (less effective than bromelain)
    Lumbrokinase (discouraged until after ISAC panel)
    You may find that you may herx because pathogens are being exposed to the immune system. We want to give the body's own immune system every reasonable opportunity to eliminate infections that it can handle before we detect what is left over. The pathogens that remain may need antibiotics or antivirals to eliminate.

    Stage Three: Treating Infections and Coagulation
    At this point, you may be feeling wonderful or just a little better. Regardless, it is best to continue onwards treating any issues returned by the Stage Two Exit tests.

    Periodic: ISAC Panel to see progress on correcting coagulation issues
    Periodic: Vitamin D and other measures to insure levels are being maintained.
    You cannot retest for Pathogens without being off anti-pathogens for 6 months.
    You should research each pathogen found to determine what works well, sometimes or rarely for each specific type of infection. Do no assume that a physician will have time to do this. Bring the name of the recommended antibiotic or antiviral to your MD with the literature supporting its use. There is a small number of antibiotics that will eliminate most of these infections. The best results have been reported when antibiotics are changed monthly -- this is a bit of a novel approach for many MDs, so you may wish to provide the papers of Dr. Jadin to your MD. In some cases, transfer factor may be suggested or needed. Transfer factor is a natural alternative to antibiotics and antivirals [Unfortunately, it is available for only a few pathogens and can be expensive].

    Warning: You should stop the fibrin dissolving enzymes before starting anti-pathogens. These enzymes potentate anti-pathogens and can result in major herxheimer reaction. You should start all anti-pathogens at a very low level and increase slowly to keep the herxheimer reaction reasonable.

    Chances are that you will have a hereditary coagulation defect (it is possible to acquire them also from exposure to pollutants). Learn as much as you can about your defect using Medline. There are many non-prescription supplements which will help certain defects (and in some cases, make other defect's symptoms worse -- for example Evening Primrose Oil is a two edged sword). You will likely be prescribed very low-dosage heparin. Heparin is like insulin, it is the substance that your body produces to dissolve coagulation. Heparin is usually extracted from cows and is not a synthetic chemical. Because your own heparin may have a missing component (defect), this new heparin will compensate for what you are deficient in and you should start feeling better -- in some cases, a major improvement may happen within a week. [Unfortunately, customized extracts for each coagulation defect is not available].

    The use of heparin may cause other coagulation products to increase (often fibrinogen) because you are dissolving a back-log of coagulation products. Using Turmeric (a common kitchen spice) will help reduce the fibrinogen level. Turmeric is also an anti-inflammatory and antiviral for EBV.

    Duration: Once you have stop herxing from the antipathogens, you should resume with fibrin dissolving enzymes. Again, start at a low level and slowly increase as the herx will likely returns as the enzyemes allows antipathogens to reach deeper infections.

    Termination Condition: No Herxheimer reaction for one complete set of anti-pathogens cycle with 18,000 GDU of bromelain (typically 3 months with 3 antibiotics families being used).

    Stage Four: Anti-inflammation
    Entry: Inflammatory Markers
    Periodic: Vitamin D and other measures to insure levels are being maintained.
    CFIDS PCR Panel
    Inflammatory Markers
    TH1/TH2 bais
    There is a chance that inflammation may be acting as a barrier protecting pathogens. At this point of time we see how much inflammation is happening. If there is inflammation, the use of Telmisartan with a statin (or Red Rice Yeast) for 4 months (without any anti-pathogens) is suggested. Telmisartan crosses the blood-brain-barrier and you may notice reduction of headaches or improve cognitive functions. You may continue with anti-coagulants. Fibrin dissolving enzymes should be stopped at the beginning and added back in slowly . Additional anti-inflammatory substances may be suggested by your MD.

    At the end of this stage, we see if pathogens have survived or new ones has been exposed. If so, proceed to Stage Three again.

    Stage Five: Prevention
    At this point, if this model is right, you should have at least a 80% chance of being in full remission -- CFIDS is a "waste bucket" for many many different conditions and no solution will work for all.

    Since it is likely that you have an inherited coagulation defect we should not use the word "cure". You should have the following performed every 1-3 years:

    ISAC Panel
    Vitamin levels (especially D)
    If they start deteriorating, you should be able to correct them before CFIDS develops.

    You should become aware of factors that can encourage the pathogens -- fatigue and stress typically -- and learn to deal aggressively with them (low level stress over 12 months is far more likely to cause a reappearance of a pathogen than 1 month of high stress). You may wish to take courses on handling stress and people.

    A support group has been set up at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFSProtocol/

    [This Message was Edited on 01/21/2007]
  3. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    here's wishing you luck, and also I will follow your posts with interest.

    I loosely follow Ken's protocol. I began with vitamins, probiotics and Pro-Boost for a couple of months, then added in Transfer Factor and glutathione.

    I think the Vitamin D has helped ..it's hard to say when you're taking so much.

    Anyhow, I have tried a couple of docs in Chicago, but am always keeping an eye out for more options.

    Tried Dr. Keith Berndtson at Integrative Health Care centers. Seemed like a good physician..used the Teitelbaum protocol, but very judiciously.. one thing at a time.

    But I gave up on him because I decided I wanted to go the natural route.

    Good luck
  4. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    I went to see Dr. David Edelberg, Whole Health Chicago on Tuesday. (www.wholehealthchicago.com) He's on the good doctor list on this board so FM & CF don't scare him. I am MOST impressed with the "Healing Path" that he prescribed for my FM/CF.

    In contrast with the 24 page questionnaire from FFC, his method of taking my history was very different than anything I've ever experienced. He came out to the waiting room to get me himself even though he had an office full of office and medical staffers!

    No visit with the nurse or medical assistant for the arduous history taking and vitals check with the dreaded weigh in. No torturous pressing of my tender points which reduces all of us (including me) to tears. He just checked one tender point on my knee. I jumped about 2' in the air almost flying out of the chair.

    Instead of the typical recitation of my prior diagnoses and symptoms, he sat with me in an office while he typed on a laptop. He asked me to imagine my life as a movie. What was my health like as a baby? A child? A teen-ager? What were my 20's like? My 30's and my 40's? When we finished he recited it all back to me from his notes and got it all correct. He was ACTUALLY LISTENING!

    A clear pattern began to emerge: mainly stress due to under treated fibro and other chronic pain because of numerous health problems along with serious hormonal imbalances. Added to the stress of the chronic pain is the run around I have gotten for the past 25 years going from doctor to doctor and not getting adequate treatment or a real diagnosis.

    I almost didn't keep my appointment because of the title of his book "The Triple Whammy Cure." I bought the book in the apothecary and can't put it down. www.triplewhammy.com

    The chapter on fibromyalgia is one of the longest in the book. Whammy #1: Stress, the Fibro Trigger. Whammy #2: Low Serotonin, the Cause of Fibro? There's a good paragraph here on our pain enemy, Substance P. Whammy #3: The Hormone Connection.

    I do have some "homework" which is two test kits. One is called Adrenal Health. It's a saliva test kit for DHEA x2 and Cortisol x4. The other is a urine test kit for epinephrine, nor-epinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, GABA, and creatinine. After I fill up the specimen containers I mail them in with prepaid labels.

    My personal healing path involves:

    Changing my pain medication to a MUCH more potent one -- this typically lasts from 6 months to 1 year and is used to break the cycle of SEVERE pain;
    Staying on the same dose of T3 (FFC just raised that to 125 mcg. 12/23/06);
    Lowering my hydrocortisone from 20 mg. SR to 5 mg. 2X per day -- Cortef brand instead of more expensive compounded version;
    Upping my Bi-Est from (Estriol 2 mg. Estradiol 1.25 mg) to Estriol/Estradiol 3.75;
    Upping my Testosterone from 1.25 to 2.5 mg.

    I'm supposed to stay on:
    Fish Oil 1,000 mg. 2X per day;
    Vitamin D 1,000 IU daily;
    5 HTP 100 mg at bedtime;
    DHEA 50 mg.

    B Complex--high potency add to the FFC Ultra Genesis multi;
    St. John's Wort 450 mg. 2X per day.

    Natural ways to boost serotonin (feel good brain chemical):
    Exercise -- walking OK -- 20 minutes -- outdoors preferred;
    Get some sunlight every day;
    Eat good quality carbs (that I'm not intolerant to) with every meal.

    In a nutshell, Dr. Edelberg explained to me that I have a genetic predisposition to low levels of serotonin. I was born a few bucketfuls short. This is my buffer against stress and it's gone. That I agree with because I crash when I exceed my boundaries.

    I'm subject to the changing tides of hormones as estrogen and serotonin are closely related. That I also agree with because I've had almost all of the whammies described in the book: CF, FM, IBS, memory loss & brain fog, menopausal issues, migraine headaches, postpartum depression, PMS, SAD (winter blues), sleep problems, smoking & weight loss agonies and problems with TMJ.

    I'm at the point with FFC where they would like me to come in every 2-4 weeks for AV IV therapy. I've already spent tons of money with FFC for doctor visits, testing, IVs, and supplements. After doing their treatment for 9 months, my AB titers for infections are the same as when I started! My hormone levels are still low. I still have every symptom listed under hormone deficiencies on the FFC website.

    In spite of religiously following the candida diet and taking 9 months of Nystatin + a 30 day cycle of Diflucan then another 60 day cycle of Diflucan -- I'm no closer to lowering my Candida AB titers either. I've had 9 IgG shots and swallowed a million FFC supplements. We’ve spent almost $11,000 out of pocket in 2006. It's time for something different.


    LISALOO New Member

    Thanks for the postk please keep me updated. There's no one in Wisconsin for me, so Chicago would not be bad!
  6. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    I was seeing an alternative doc in Wisconsin Dells. He used to have an office in the Chicago suburbs but closed that so I made the trip to WI Dells a few times a year. He was treating me with Armour thryoid and the typical hormones (hydrocortisone, pregnenelone, DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone).

    He dumped me a few months after I started going to the FFC
    because "it was all too much". As in I was seeing "too many doctors" and taking "too much stuff". I'd been seeing him for 15 years.

    He never did any kind of follow up labs because he relied on symptoms. When my libido kept flopping out on me he kept increasing the testosterone until I was on the max dose for women. I got polycythemia (too many blood cells) from all of the testosterone.

    Some of the women in my endo support group tried him but were not impressed. Just thought I'd mention it in case you are near the Dells.
  7. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I have an allergy/sensitivity to corn (it makes me severely depressed!) but never have had a reaction to ProBoost.

  8. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

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