Why is oxygen intake so low at night?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Adl123, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

    Hello All,
    A few weeks ago I posted about my Dr. putting me on night time oxygen. I said I would tell you what happened.

    First of all, the aching, pulling, painful, feeling in my body (as if gravity had a powerful hold on it) especially in my legs, is gone. I still get very exhausted,and I still hurt, but it's different - it's not so "deep", if I can describe it that way.. I can also breathe more deeply now, without coughting.

    I had a sleep study at our local hospital the other night, abd my Oxygen went down to 70. I dont have sleep apnea, so I wonder why my O2 gets so low during the night. Does anyone have any ideas?

    Dr. Chaney's research seems to indicate that CFIDS weakens the heart muscle, just as it does the other muscles, and so the heart doesn't have enough strength to do the things it usually does, as well as it should. This is the only reason I can come up with, but my Dr. will not address either CFIDS or Fibro. (Please don't suggest that I get another Dr., becaue I've looked, and there aren't any up here). I would really like to have some ideas , so I can do something about healing that, and not be dependent on oxygen all my life.

    I would be grateful for any responses.
    Thank you,
  2. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

    To Carla - I was told that sleeping intake of oxygen should be in the 90's. So I think I went really low. I can tell the difference in the morning, too.

    To Nancy - Thanks for the information.
    Yes, I used to play the cello. How great to find another person! I love the sound of the cello, even though I felt self-conscious sitting behind it, because we were both shaped the same! LOL

    My favorite composer is Tchaikovsky, although I also love Mozart and Debussy. Oh, and Satie, for those other-worldly moments!
    Thanks, to both.
    [This Message was Edited on 10/15/2006]
  3. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

  4. deliarose

    deliarose New Member


    Rioh Van K.. if his name means anything to u.

    Do u use a CPAP machine or something else? I would like to ask my doc about this.

  5. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

    Thanks for the information. No, I don't use a CPAP machine. I do however, use a large machine that filters the air in the room, and deletes most of the nitrogen, etc, from it, so that I inhale air with more than the usual amount of oxygen. I use a nose piece, as they do in hospitals.I use it ever time i sleep, even if just for a nap.

    I will tell my Dr.. However, he isn't as interestd in the cause as he is in relieving the symptoms. I dont' get to see him for another 2 months.

    Thanks, again,
  6. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

  7. vickiw

    vickiw Member

    Hi Terry,

    Have you tried breathing exercises? They helped with my shortness of breath (I don't know what my 02 levels are). I do a couple of different types. Here's a good article about one technique. Long, but worth the read.

    Take care,

    Dr. Cheney on an Effective Breathing Technique Alternative to the “Rebreather” Protocol for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome by Carol Sieverling, ImmuneSupport.com


    Editor’s Note: Dr. Paul Cheney, M.D., discussed a "new" breathing technique with patient Carol Sieverling – he presented it to her as no cost, easier, and more effective at increasing oxygen transport than the "rebreather" protocol. The following is a transcription from a conversation taped with Dr. Cheney by Carol Sieverling, that took place in November 2000.

    First, here are the benefits of increased oxygen:

    1) more energy at the cellular level

    2) suppresses growth of yeast (and other pathogens)

    3) prevents swelling of the brain caused by decreased oxygen

    Dr. Cheney said this was not uncommon in CFIDS and is the connection between Chiari Malformation and CFIDS. Dr. Cheney said that Chiari is a compression phenomenon due to lack of sufficient width/depth at the base of the skull, while CFIDS is a compression phenomenon due to anoxic cerebral edema. Many CFIDS patients are familiar with Dr. Cheney's earlier oxygen protocol using a partial rebreather mask to address tissue acidosis/blood alkalosis and thereby improve oxygen transport from the blood into cells (see www.virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids for Cheney Treatment Plan Prescriptions).

    Dr. Cheney has realized this rebreather protocol, while beneficial, has limitations. It can be difficult to find the equipment, it is expensive, and the procedure requires much "tweaking." Most significantly, he has come to realize that it does not address the underlying problem of 2,3 DPG levels.

    2,3 DPG is a substance that allows oxygen to be released from the hemoglobin in our blood. Without 2,3 DPG, oxygen can't get off the hemoglobin and into the cells of our body. This oxygen deprivation makes the body switch over to anaerobic metabolism, which produces tissue acidosis, which can be painful. However, the more 2,3 DPG one has, the more oxygen is released from the blood into the tissues and organs and brain. (And oxygen will help kill candida and other pathogens.)

    The very simple breathing technique Cheney is recommending to all his patients can be found on Andrew Weil's tape of eight different breathing methods. This particular method is Weil's favorite - he says it's the most powerful way to treat chronic illness that he knows of. Ayurvedic physicians developed it 3,000 years ago. And 30 years of clinical experience now back it up.

    Here is how it works:

    1) Inhale through your nose for 4 seconds
    2) Hold your breath for 7 seconds
    3) Exhale through tightly pursed lips for 8 seconds, creating "back pressure" (you should be able to hear the air being forced out of your mouth as you do this.)

    Do this 8 times in a total of two and a half minutes. Do this twice a day - a grand total of 5 minutes a day. That's all it takes. (If you feel lightheaded, just do it 6 times or until you begin to feel lightheaded, then build up to 8.) You must be very faithful and consistent for this to work, and it takes weeks for the body to adjust the 2,3 DPG levels. But your oxygen transport will get better and better over time.

    What does this breathing exercise do? This method is based on the same principle at work in the marathon runners from Kenya who frequently win the Boston Marathon. They live and train at a high altitude. They run at 12,000 feet. To compensate for the lack of oxygen at higher altitudes, their bodies make a physiological adjustment, raising 2,3 DPG levels so more oxygen is released. The higher the 2,3 DPG goes, the easier it is to run. Then the Kenyans go to Boston, which is at sea level (with more oxygen in the atmosphere of course), and run their race. But their bodies are still set for high altitude, so they end up with more oxygen being transported into their tissues than other runners. They are superoxygenated, transporting oxygen like crazy.

    Dr. Cheney's goal is to “trick” our bodies into thinking we live at a higher altitude, thus raising our 2,3 DPG levels, thereby transporting more oxygen from our blood into our tissues. How is that done? By not breathing! This method is actually regulated breath holding. As you regularly breath hold, your O2 drops. You induce a state called desaturation. And for those five minutes a day of desaturation, your body panics. It believes it's high up in the mountains and it spends the rest of the day compensating for that (by raising 2,3 DPG), even though you're not actually up in the mountains. The body is so concerned with desaturation that even though you live in Dallas, for example, it will program your body as if you live in Denver (at a higher altitude).

    Besides being cheaper, easier, and more effective, Cheney says this method has another advantage over the rebreather mask: you can't "overregulate." With the rebreather mask you can "counterregulate" - the result is that you can get too much oxygen transfer going on, which will cause your body to lower 2,3 DPG, ultimately lowering oxygen transfer. This is why the rebreather stopped working for many of us after several months.

    With this breathing method, Cheney said that the body will raise 2,3 DPG to the point that it is beneficial, but it won't raise it so high that it "forces a more profound alkalosis" of the blood.
  8. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

    Dear Vicki,
    Thanks a lot for the information. I'm going to take it to my Dr.
    I have been doing similar exercises, taught to me by my Chinese Herbalist/Acupuncturist. I guess I haven't been doing them enough.

    Do you know if this helps oxyen levels when one is alseep? That is when I have my problems.

    Thanks again,
    [This Message was Edited on 10/19/2006]
  9. vickiw

    vickiw Member

    Dear Terry,

    I don't know for certain, but the article does say if you do the exercise consistently, your oxygen transport will get better and better. I would assume that's asleep or awake.

    The trick I was taught to remember to do breathing exercises is to do them...

    1) before getting up in the morning
    2) right before lunch
    3) right before dinner
    4) before going to sleep at night

    It doesn't always work, but I usually get 3 out of 4 :)

  10. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

  11. browneyelady48

    browneyelady48 New Member

    I too am on oxygen at night, 70 is really low. Mine was 80 at night. I was told it should not go under 91. Have you seen a respiratory dr. I have COPD and do the newbulizer 4 times aday.

    Its really weird because using the newbulizer has really helped with alot of my leg pains. I cant explain it. I really wonder if alot of my problems isnt my heart.

    My primary dr just did a complete blood workup on me and I had to go in yesterday and of course chosletal and tricyclites was high. Forgot to ask how high, but I knew when I had the test it would be high, it has since I have been sick.

    Keep us posted how you are doing. Oxygen has really helped my fogness in the morning. And I have to sleep with a fan blowing in my face. Love Brenda
  12. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

    Dear Brenda,
    Thank you for your post. I haven't seen a respiratory specialist. It strikes me kind of funny that my Dr. didn't even phone to tell me the results of my test- (the technician told me I didn't have Sleep Apnea), and he doesn't seem interested in finding out why I need oxygen. The only test he suggested was the cardiolite test, but I couldn't do the chemical one, and I wasn't able to do the one on the treadmill, so I'm in limbo until I see him in 2 months!!!

    It would be wonderful if something would help me with my leg pain. Maybe I need a nebulizer. I'm going to ask.

    I know I have a weak heart, due to CFIDS and also because of a reaction to Metformin.

    How do you sleep with a fan in your face? I'm trying to keep the window open , but the night air is getting really cold. Thankfully, I have a ceiling fan I can use.

    I don't mind saying, that I feel neglected by my Dr.. I had my yearly prescriptions sent in to my insurance company , and for the third year in a row, there was a big mistake.It's a good thing that I double check on everythng they do. I've learned the hard way.

    Thanks for your resonse.
  13. hubby

    hubby New Member

    I just had to add this post. I too have had a low saturation level even 89 on 4 liters of o2 but I know that I am a shallow breather.

    I also have been getting even shorter of breath and just recently almost died with a hemogloben level of 44. I was in denial about the anemia I developed after a stomach surgery 10 yrs ago.

    I have never had something that once achieving normal that I have been able to maintain so figured this was just another slip up. I had different symtoms of anemia with this sob and then feeling foggy and swelling, then an almost euphoric thought of just putting one foot in front of the other and I was going to get back in shape.

    I have been ill for about 3 yrs on top of Fibro, cfs, rsd, and other dx, so this was just other things I had to try and live with. I would tell my husband I was dying which was true, and would have been had I not got to the PA as my Dr was busy for a week.

    What finally made me go was a constant body full of charlie horses and horrible, even under the ribs. When my feet swelled to like dough boy and pitting edema of 10 though my feet were up, still could not figure it out. Though of course I couldn't had no 02 in my brain.

    I am a nurse and felt most foolish gotten so bad, but realize now that I cannot get that way again, not with all the other stuff going on. I guess the euphoric feeling I can do anything and going golfing not being able to breath, was really dying, they say you get that way,

    Maybe your o2 level could be attributed to anemia, have Dr check, I know I felt better in hospital on 02 while getting my 5 pints of blood.

    Dr just told me the other day I was to have at least 2 more pints, but he would keep an eye on it, and hopefully my blood would start making again.

    I had gotten so anemic that it stopped making new blood.

    Anyway look into it, there are so many reasons with just the fibro, like said we are usually all shallow breathers.

    I know that my systems were ready to shut down, and not sure how much has repaired by now, though feeling so much better. I know it is already on the way down again.

    Sorry so long, thought I would just put my two cents in as to another reason, I too had a sleep study and had to go on sinemit.Sorry jumped all over guess I better just read, and then go to bed.

    They are now say Calcium is better for RLS and of course need that for heart and muscles, so started that and have had some improvement in things.

    Nite and God bless with all giving advise maybe will find out and maybe just will confuse you, so just take what you think applies to you. hard to sort out when it effects so much of our ubody and have so many symtoms that is just another one, on another person.

  14. browneyelady48

    browneyelady48 New Member

    I am in limbo too. Your oxygen got down to 70 while sleeping and noone has told you why. I too have heart problems with the cfs, but also have copd. Has anyone did any respirtary test on you?

    I have had all kinds of heart test and the only thing that comes out is a bad ekg. And its the twaves and the dr said no worry.

    My daughter works in a heart clinic (KS) and is always telling me I need to have my legs tested (cant remember the name) and I have always thought my leg pain is vascular. My pain is in the back in the bends of my legs.

    Its just weird that the albutual in the newbulazer helps my pain.

    I pray you find answers soon. At least that got you right on the oxygen. What liter are you are.

    And about the fan, I put it on the nightstand and it blows in my face. Thats my lifesaver. The first sleep study I did the dr said I had sleep apea, and I tried the cpap but didnt help any. It felt like I was suffacating. 3 years later had another study done with a different dr and different hospital, and he said I didnt have sleep apea.

    Sorry so long, Love Brenda
  15. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    what is the name of the equipment you are using?
  16. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    what is the name of the equipment you are using?
  17. Adl123

    Adl123 New Member

    I'll find out the official name of the equipment I'm using. I know that it's a large machine, about 2 1/2 feet high. It pulls in air from the room and gets rid of most of the nitrogen, etc, so that what I'm breathing is mosstly oxygen. I use a nose attachment (hose), and I also have water added, to make it more of a mist..

    I feel really dumb, but I can't remember the complicated name of what is wrong with me. I don't have sleep apnea. I do know that I need night time oxygen because my brain is not sending the "breathe" signals to my lungs, enough. I went down to 70 during my sleep test. I'm encouraged because my acupuncturist said that he could probably help that, so we're working on coordinating my braiin with my lungs more.


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