Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by Bunchy, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member


    I have been doing the Banderol at 16/17 drops a day and Burbur (same amount or upto 20 drops) for two weeks.

    I'm not feeling anything changing, good or bad.

    Any ideas why?

    Pls help,

    Love Bunchy x
  2. victoria

    victoria New Member

    don't know much about the alternative approaches... have you checked Buhner's book on it?

    Just curious as to what he may say about it... whether you should increase it until you get a herx, or try adding something, or do something completely different.

    Unless something does cause you to herx tho, it's not killing the lyme.

    all the best,

  3. pawprints

    pawprints New Member

    Keep upping your dose of Banderol...could be you need more. Up it one drop per day. I never went that high on Burbur so I always got a herx. If not Banderol, try their other product Cumanda. I can now take both but still can't take Quina or I got a hugh herx that is intolerable. Remember everyone is different. Call NatuRx if necessary. They are very helpful.
  4. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    Still no change - sigh....

    I found the same lack of any response with Cumanda.

    Just don't know what to try next - have a very limited budget.

    Also doing vit D, NAC, probiotics and some chlorella but the chlorella makes me feel sick if I take more than one small capsule.

    Running out of ideas here - if I'm not feeling improvement after six weeks on this, is this not going to work? Or should I try for a longer period?

    Love Bunchy x
  5. victoria

    victoria New Member

    if Buhner addresses this in his book?

    I don't know anything about the herbal approaches specifically, but I'm guessing one could have the same problems that pts have with abx... not every abx works due to differences in strains of Bb.

    It's too often frustrating no matter what approach it seems...

    all the best,

  6. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    Thanks for your kind reply :)

    Hmmm....I'm going to go for one more lot of the Banderol/Cumanda and Burbur and if nothings changed after the three months worth, I will give up on them and assume they are not going to work for me.

    So many here have said my symptoms sounded like Lyme I thought it was worth experimenting with a Lyme protocol.

    Tansy has mentioned some herbs used in Buhner's protocol that helped her - maybe I will try some of those instead.

    Thanks again for your input (all of you)

    Love Bunchy x
  7. highcotton

    highcotton New Member

    that the brand of products you bought is no good?
  8. jess

    jess New Member

    HI Bunchy, I read that someone had emailed Dr. Buhner with a question and received an answer. I think there is a web site in his book listed. Just a suggestion. Good luck, Jess
  9. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Banderol and burbur are part of the Cowden protocol, not Buhner's. You won't find it in Buhner's book.

    I've been taking cumanda for almost 7 months. You have to build up to it. Therapeutic doses are 15-20 drops Twice daily.

    Cumanda is a strong antifungal, and I thinked it helped in that area and with urinary infections. It didn't really help me with the Lyme. I found doxycyline the most helpful for that.

    Burbur is helpful with the detoxing from cumanda, etc.

    You can take most of the Nutramedix tinctures with ABX, only at different times of the day. They didn't seem to be a cure all for me, but I do think they were helpful.

    Nutramedix is coming out with a new tincure Enula for babesia. It should be available in March.


  10. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    Yes that was what I meant - that I would try to switch from Cowden's protocol to Buhner's before I give up on the natural herbs having any effect whatsoever.

    The reason I tried Cowden's first was it seemed safer and with more well known and documented herbs. Some of the one's in Buhner's book can have some really nasty side efects which worry me a little.

    How are you doing on the doxy? Not sure whether to ask my doc for a trial of this (what dose and for how long do you need to take it?) as she is not very open-minded about these DD's. She does not believe in precribing long term ABX for "possible Lyme". She has nothing to lose tho except a patient who is in and out of her surgery and begging her to help me...LOL

    What do you think?

    Love Bunchy x
  11. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Basically no one has a pat answer for everybody. It's trial by error. I think it has to do with our body chemistry, medical tolerance, infections, weaknesses, etc. All I can say is keep trying to find the right formula for you.

    I keep a chart to monitor my progress. If I think I'm having a reaction to a supplement, herb, or RX, I'll note that. I'll stop it for awhile and try again. Three strikes, it's out.

    Do no harm. Just do what feels good.

    Good luck.

  12. Renae610

    Renae610 New Member

    If you haven't been tested for Lymes, I recommend using IgenX Lab, or an EDS technician may find it too.

    The Naturopath at TGP said my daughter should take a combo of Burbur, Samento, and Cumanda. He said if after 2 months she notices no change, then a neurotransmitter test should be done. Possibly you need this.

    The Naturopath at R.E. recommended their product SNBC (for Amino Acids, neurotransmitters) and FemBalance for hormonal support.

    I take this to mean, that we can't just attempt to kill off Lymes and coinfections, but should simultaneously build up all body systems in an integrative way. The doctor who diagnosed my daughter emphasized this too.

  13. CounselingUSAOnline

    CounselingUSAOnline New Member

    I am having improvement with 20 drops samento 3x day and enula 60 drops 3x day with water.
    However I did bring my iodine up to repletion with Iodoral as determined by a 24 urine test; and I did detox with pectasol, cilantro, chlorella.
    I also take CoQ10 and time release NAC.
    Try a Fatty Acid Profile C12-C22 & vit E blood test to see what fatty acids you need.
    Check hsCRP blood test for inflammation level.
    I follow a no gluten, no casien diet, no processed starch diet.
  14. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    I tried Cumanda, Banderol, Burbur, Enula, for over 10 months. Herxed like crazy and felt miserable.

    Antibiotics were much faster for me, even though that took months. I liked doxycycline and ceftin. They got me back to working eventually.

    Maybe Nutramedix tinctures can be used as an adjunct, but shouldn't be considered a first line of offense. Same goes for Buhner's herbs, traditional chinese medicine, and homeopathic.

    If you want to kick Lyme and coinfections you need much stronger stuff like abx.

    From my lenthy experience...don't waste your $$ like I did.
  15. raken123

    raken123 New Member

    In the condensed Cowden protocol, you're not only taking the killers (banderol and samento), you're also taking the detoxers (burbur, parsley, pinella, zeolite). He thinks detox is just as important as killing the bugs. You might need more than just burbur for detox. Also, have you considered adding magnesium? Mag supplementation oftentimes improves Lyme symptoms because the rampant mag deficiency seen in people with Lyme actually leads to some classic Lyme symptoms. Mag malate is part of the Cowden protocol, as is serrapeptase, which breaks down the biofilm. So you might be missing some important components.

    Also, as someone in Lyme treatment for almost 3 years now, I stopped thinking in terms of "2 weeks, 1 month, 2 months" a while back. Now I think in terms of 6 months to a year. How will I feel 6 months from now? A year from now? I learned that several months is often not enough time to evaluate progress after starting a certain protocol, whether its herbs or antibiotics. For example, when I started my most recent combo of Flagyl and azithromycin, it provoked an ache in my neck to end all neck aches! It radiated down into my shoulders and arms. I was in almost constant pain for over 3 months, but didn't stop the drugs. Then, just recently, it started easing up, and now (knock on wood) it seems to be going away. Those "die-off" effects can last a long time -- months at a time -- and it's hard to see any progress at all during those times.

    Lastly, you might want to try antibiotics for as long as your body can tolerate them to strongly and swiftly reduce your bacterial load as much as possible, and then introduce the herbs. They might have more of an effect that way. I've been on antibiotics for 2 years, with short breaks in between. I was also on a 6 month course of mepron (anti-malarial used to treat babesia). These strong drugs were able to reduce my bacterial load to the point where I now feel herbal protocols will be more effective, so I'm fully committing myself to the Cowden condensed protocol, which I just started 2 weeks ago. I feel like this will be key in transitioning away from antibiotics. When I started antibiotics, I didn't want to be on them for more than 2 years because of the negative effects they have on the body, so all along I've been thinking about which herbal protocol I wanted to use. I think Buhner's is good (in terms of the herbs he uses), but there are lots of capsules to swallow once you build up to the full dose, and some of them didn't agree with my stomach. The thing I like about Cowden is that they're all tinctures, very easy to take, which is important since you have to take them 4 times a day, for at least 6 months. Also, he balances antimicrobials with detox herbs quite nicely.