Woman with M.E. goes to Swiss suicide clinic

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Bluebottle, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle New Member

    My heart goes out to this poor woman & her family.

    In the UK there is no biomedical research into M.E./CFS, no treatment, no hope and no future - the psychiatric profession have grabbed all the funding whilst continuing to denigrate seriously ill sufferers as malingerers.

    Woman's clinic death was suicide

    A coroner has recorded a verdict of suicide in the case of a woman who flew to a Swiss clinic to end her life.

    Nicola McNougher, 43, from Barnt Green, Worcestershire, had suffered with medical conditions for many years, the county's coroner's court heard.

    These included severe cystitis and kidney problems. She was also found to be suffering from ME in the 1990s.

    "My life has become an inhumane existence," she said in a statement written while she was in Switzerland.

    The statement said: "Even voices create pain, including the voices of my own children. I simply do not wish to exist."

    Coroner Geraint Williams said he had read out the 43-year-old's statement because he wanted her voice to be heard.

    Ms McNougher, who left two teenage children, had worked as a teacher and a psychologist.

    video here:

  2. 3gs

    3gs New Member

    Thank You for posting this very important message.

    This kind of thiing happens all the time because of ignorant doctors and lame policies.

    There have been posts from the UK on here before,maybe I'm confused but I thought they talked about things being done there? I often look to Europe first on research and drug questions.

    Hope things get better so these kinds of tradgies can stop.
  3. Rosiebud

    Rosiebud New Member

    I saw this.....poor woman must have been so depressed to leave behind her family like this.

    My heart goes out to her kids.

  4. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    utterly shameful and disgusting. the UK govt's need to be held accountable for this. they know we are too sick to launch lawsuits. this is just horrible. it makes me so angry. it did not have to happen.
  5. Rosiebud

    Rosiebud New Member

    this poor woman DID have M.E. - She ALSO had kidney and cystitis problems.

  6. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    hmmm....i saw a documentary once about the swiss suicide clinic and it didnt seem like a bad-looking place...but maybe they changed things for tv.

    they record the deaths with a video camera.

    where did you hear that they offered a son a reduced rate to die? it was my understanding that this place is monitored carefully by the gov't.

    on this documentary, they showed a healthy, elderly couple who wanted to die together before one of them went first via natural causes, but the clinic refused them.

    [This Message was Edited on 08/31/2008]
  7. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle New Member

    We are not tested for heavy metals in the UK. We are hardly ever tested for anything - the psychiatrists involved say that we should not have biomedical tests as this would reinforce our 'aberrant illness beliefs'.

    Some people being sent to CFS clinics here are later found have cancer.

    I have kidney & interstitial cystitis problems.My urology clinic say they can't do anything.
  8. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    disgusting. just disgusting. i hate them.
  9. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    I feel this way often god bless dr myhil or i would have gone the same way
  10. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    I feel this way often god bless dr myhil or i would have gone the same way
  11. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    I feel this way often god bless dr myhil or i would have gone the same way
  12. homesheba

    homesheba New Member

    but i can also understand it to.
    no one except the ones who suffer minute by minute
    can comprehend this horrible stuff
    and what someone will do to try
    and escape from it.
    i for one am not ' for' assited suicide'
    but i do understand why some people
    come to that point in their lives,
    and especially if they have no Hope.
  13. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    guys this sad email was in my in box next to the one shown above. sorry its so long but just thought this lady should be heard about as well. its shocking that this is happening.

    cried heaps since i read both emails.

    we are making progress in the uk but its still tiny steps and horrnedous treatment still happens

    we must keep up the pessure and thanks for the support from you guys we must all stick together.

    step by step we must get up the mountain.

    Tom Kindlon to CO-CURE
    show details Aug 30 (3 days ago) Reply

    There are various media articles on this. Although perhaps only one
    mentions Emily suffered chronic fatigue syndrome. I've included this one
    and one which reports on the coroner's verdict.

    There is a short obituary for Emily at the New Writers Group Inc where one
    can read one of Emily's works:



    http://tinyurl.com/66o5nm i.e.

    Hanging victim afraid in hospital

    Geesche Jacobsen

    August 19, 2008

    THE previous time Emily Chapman tried to hang herself in the psychiatric
    unit, she pressed the emergency button, and was saved.

    A night nurse, Margot Gattenby, then allegedly made her crawl back to her
    bed and refused to help her up.

    Later, the nurse allegedly said loudly: "She's just an attention seeker. If
    she was serious, she would not have pressed the emergency button." Ms
    Chapman, who heard the comment, told another nurse: "I will never press that
    button again."

    The next time Emily Chapman hanged herself in the Cumberland Hospital
    psychiatric unit she did not press the emergency button. She died the
    following day.

    The 20-year-old had been admitted in December 2005 after a suicide attempt.
    She had suffered chronic fatigue syndrome since she was 13, and had been
    admitted to hospital nine times with pancreatitis, her father, John Chapman,
    told Glebe Coroner's Court yesterday.

    She had told staff she was afraid of the fixtures in the bathroom, felt
    unsafe and had a desire to hang or strangle herself.

    Dr Chapman told the court his daughter had written a letter complaining
    about Ms Gattenby but had not sent it for fear of retribution. She wrote of
    being deliberately kept awake, of being denied her medication, and being
    told to "watch the television" when she was feeling anxious.

    Ms Gattenby also allegedly told her she had "run out of compassion" for her,
    and that she was not really ill.

    "All of these experiences have been traumatic and damaging above and beyond
    the illness that I'm already suffering," Ms Chapman wrote. "I trust that you
    will take this matter seriously, address this inexcusable behaviour and
    attitude, and act to change the situation for the good of all the patients
    in the ward."

    Another nurse, Lynne Murphy, who became close to Ms Chapman, resigned in
    protest at the "patient abuse" on the ward. Ms Chapman told her she had been
    sexually assaulted in other hospitals but this was not followed up and she
    was left alone with a male nurse at night.

    Ms Murphy said Ms Gattenby told her not to reward Ms Chapman for her suicide
    attempt by giving her attention. "You have to decide whether long-term
    behavioural change is your goal or preventing suicide . In order to prevent
    suicide, you have to show empathy and compassion," Ms Murphy told the court.

    The inquest continues.

    http://tinyurl.com/63w9yr i.e.

    Coroner blasts 'abhorrent', 'ignorant' and 'cruel' nurse

    August 28, 2008 - 12:47PM

    A coroner has criticised the behaviour of a nurse towards a patient who
    committed suicide as "abhorrent", but has stopped short of blaming her for
    the woman's death.

    Emily Chapman, 20, had made regular complaints to her parents and written
    diary entries about her fear of Margot Gattenby, one of the nurses who cared
    for her in an acute psychiatric ward at Cumberland Hospital.

    She complained that Ms Gattenby had verbally abused her on several
    occasions, including after a suicide attempt in December 2005 in which Ms
    Gattenby allegedly said the attempt was "attention seeking" and if she was
    serious she would not have pressed the emergency button.

    As a result of those alleged comments, Ms Chapman told another nurse that
    she would "never press that button again".

    She did not raise the alarm the next time she attempted suicide and died the
    following day on February 15, 2006.

    During an inquest into Ms Chapman's death, Ms Gattenby denied making any of
    the alleged comments or that she had made Ms Chapman crawl back to her bed
    following the first attempt on her life, or that she threw her onto her bed.

    She also denied ever having had a conversation with her nursing unit manager
    in which she apologised for her behaviour.

    State Coroner Mary Jerram was today scathing of Ms Gattenby's treatment of
    Ms Chapman.

    "At the very least, her lack of compassion is abhorrent," she said. "At
    worst, her remarks and actions were ignorant, cruel and probably damaging.

    "I query the training and supervision of nursing staff, which allows
    distressed psychiatric patients to be bullied or abused to such an extent."

    However, Ms Jerram said she could not be satisfied that Ms Gattenby's
    behaviour caused or contributed to Ms Chapman's death.

    Ms Jerram was "concerned" by some hospital practices, including the fact
    that the ward had locked bathrooms and showers which allowed hanging to

    She said nursing staff on duty on the evening Ms Chapman took her life were
    "insufficiently trained" and did not conduct CPR on her as they were
    "ignorant" of the most recent education on procedures for resuscitation.

    But she noted emergency procedures had since been updated and understood by
    hospital staff.

    Send posts to CO-CURE@listserv.nodak.edu
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    Co-Cure's purpose is to provide information from across the spectrum of
    opinion concerning medical, research and political aspects of ME/CFS and/or
    FMS. We take no position on the validity of any specific scientific or
    political opinion expressed in Co-Cure posts, and we urge readers to
    research the various opinions available before assuming any one
    interpretation is definitive. The Co-Cure website <www.co-cure.org> has a
    link to our complete archive of posts as well as articles of central
    importance to the issues of our community.
  14. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    reading this has made me sick to my stomach. i cannot even imagine the pain this woman was going through. i have been so close to taking my life too, but at least i had people around me who really believed i was sick and wasn't being abused physically on top of everything else!

    this is an atrocity. i hope the family sues for millions.
  15. S-Elaine

    S-Elaine Member

    Hi all .....

    The direct quotes from this woman, sound very similar to what I felt like many years ago.

    I was even saying this verbally to my doctors. (Minus the “children” part.)

    I wish she could have found this Message Board to realize she is not alone. I wish she could have met others with her illness, so we could say we understand.

    I wish I could tell her HELP some how finally did come my way when I never believed it would anymore.

    In my Hospital Treatment Program, I learned this which made me feel better.

    “Even the most intelligent & rational people, are capable of making the most IRRATIONAL decisions when such stress, trauma and pain is placed upon us.”

    I went from 100% bedridden, then a 2 and one half years of FULL REMISSION & a slow gradual return of all symptoms again.

    I was much better prepared the 2nd time around.

    We must be very careful when discussing this “sensitive subject” and try not to judge.

    We do have to cling on to HOPE and some how manage to develop our coping skills. Building a support system is important.

    It literally took my Father quite some time before he was able to “connect” with me where I finally decided to speak and reply back to him.

    I am very lucky my Father was persistent.

    Even though he knew I had given up, he still continued to reach out to me because he knew I desperately needed help. So, he refused to give up on me.

    He would get in his wheelchair every day and come into my bedroom to talk to me. To him, it did not matter I decided to not speak. He kept coming back every day. He always left me with a great deal to think about. I would listen as he spoke, I just did not respond until he said something that finally caught my attention.

    His direct quote was ===== ...."We walk in similar shoes, so I understand how you feel." (He meant we both have illnesses. They have different names, but they affect us in similar ways.)

    From there, I believed in my Father because I knew he was telling me the truth.

    He had Parkinson’s for 19 years along with Rheumatoid Arthritis for 29 years. Some how he managed to endure all of that and still be happy. My curiosity was peaked and I became hopeful things would improve for me too.

    I never knew at the time if they would, yet they did.

    Another direct quote from my Father, which helped open up my eyes even more, was:

    "Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue is NOT your name & it does not define WHO you are. You decide who you want to be & you should still believe in your dreams. They can come true, so do not give up on hope!!"

    He peppered into that statement === “My name is NOT Parkinson’s and it is not Rheumatoid Arthritis. I just come along with them.”

    Honestly, I was surprised he used the words .... "I just come along with them". Making it sound like it wasn't so terrible.

    Again, from there I wanted to learn how can I feel that way.

    HOPE is what we need to believe in even when it does not seem like things will turn around.

    MANY, MANY times, I have asked myself this question ====

    “What if, I did get what I thought I wanted all of those years ago??? How would that have changed my family members? How would have it impacted my friends? What would all of their lives be like?”

    We cannot predict the future. I never knew “recovery” was possible, yet I am proof it does happen.

    Thankfully, we have this Message Board to reach out to each other and tell our stories.

    Take care,
    == Elaine
  16. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    how lucky you are to have a father like that. you are truly blessed:)

    i am glad you are better. i almost took my life many times. luckily, i have a wonderful mother who was always there for me.

    i feel so sorry for those who have to endure so much more than i did but hope they can somehow hang on.
  17. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    Ancholds yes dr myhil is spot on and brave 4 us elaine thank u 4 the msg of hope
  18. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    Ancholds yes dr myhil is spot on and brave 4 us elaine thank u 4 the msg of hope
  19. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    Ancholds yes dr myhil is spot on and brave 4 us elaine thank u 4 the msg of hope
  20. simpsons

    simpsons Member

    Ancholds yes dr myhil is spot on and brave 4 us elaine thank u 4 the msg of hope