www.cdcchatter.net NEW!!! CDC Credibility Questioned. 10/22/09

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by puggles, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. puggles

    puggles New Member

    There is a new topic on the CDCchatter.net board on the CDC and XMRV (and Swine Flu). The public can make comments but do not make nasty, negative personal attacks on William Reeves. We need to see what the CDC people are thinking.

    -- Has the CDC lost its Credibility with the American public? --

    Posted by: Anonymous on Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 02:32 PM 121 Reads

    The CDC seems to be taking some major hits with its credibility and reputation with the American public. Changes in H1N1 reporting numbers did not help with public perception. See ABC News and their reporting on CDC three-fold increase OVERNIGHT of H1N1 numbers - "Seeming Overnight Surge in H1N1's Death Toll: Number Change Underscores Uncertainty About Virus" Http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFluNews/h1n1-deaths-triple-overnight/story?id=9057650). An increase in deaths from 1,200 to 4,000 made in one day by the CDC does not look very good. Add to this the fact that the seasonal flu kills 36,000 people by comparison and the CDC looks even worse in reliability of data and analysis -- and possibly hype. The numbers of people who refuse to get the H1N1 vaccine are large and show that the public does not trust what the CDC says – regardless of the possible complications of getting the virus. And then there is the XMRV virus discovery in October by the Whittemore-Peterson Institute in Nevada that put a very hot spotlight on the CDC’s work on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The Internet websites and blogs seemed to explode overnight with vitriolic attacks against the CDC and conspiracy theories abounding.

    Has the CDC lost its credibility with the public? Has the reputation of the CDC been badly damaged? Why are some of our best and brightest researchers leaving in large numbers? Is it fear for their reputations and careers with the association of CDC on their resumes or something else altogether?

    Is there a problem internal to the CDC or just the perception of inadequacy of the CDC by the media and public?

    Thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated.

    Read full article: 'Has the CDC lost its Credibility with the American public? ' (494 bytes more) 4 Comments

  2. puggles

    puggles New Member


    Deirdre Imus Posted: April 2, 2008 04:45 PM
    CDC Under Siege
    When American scholar Warren Bennis said, "Bureaucracies are beautiful mechanisms for the evasion of responsibilities and guilt," he might well have been speaking of the current state of affairs inside the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
    Once revered around the world, hardly a month passes without another news report questioning the credibility, scientific independence, and integrity of the nation's premier health agency.
    Over the past four years headlines frequently chronicle a disturbing litany of allegations charging top CDC officials with wasting money on questionable research priorities, public relations stunts, distorting or ignoring health concerns raised by their own scientists, and retaliation against those who object to the censorship of scientific findings.
  3. victoria

    victoria New Member

    I heard on TV news the numbers jumped because the CDC included 'suspected' and 'likely' cases into their count, not just the confirmed cases.

    Now, if they did that with Lyme, it would be true epidemic proportions--and without any hype needed.

    Very sad they're in the pockets of insurance and pharma companies.

  4. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    thanks for posting this.....it's about time that people stop trusting them implicitly

    that's not to say that they are always all bad, but they have done so much damage to CFS patients and they do seem to screw up in other areas quite often, that I am glad that maybe people are starting to realize that they should not automatically assume that if the CDC says something, they should believe it without further research
  5. skeptik2

    skeptik2 Member

    Their inept handling of the 'CFS' crisis and the Swine Flu Data are
    probably just the tip of the iceberg.

    They need to be investigated thoroughly. They need to get out
    of Atlanta and into D.C., where they are not so 'remote' from
    oversight by the NIH and DHHS.

    I have no idea who would start a Congressional Inquiry into the
    way they have mishandled 'CFS', but there are a lot of smart
    people looking into it...hopefully, it's only a matter of time.

    Great post!

  6. illroy

    illroy Member

    This is the URL of the CDC chatter thread:


    I wrote about congressional oversight hearings, sometimes called a congressional investigation, here:


    It doesn't look like the CFIDS Association is interested in doing it.

  7. puggles

    puggles New Member

    I posted this stuff so that we all could see just how bad the ENTIRE CDC is and not just our piece of the pie with Reeves, et al. We all can and should email/write our congress people and the appropriate committees/subcommittes (federal contract funding, health, etc) and ask for an investigation into the CDC and in particular, the CDC/CFS program under Reeves. Be specific as to WHY the CDC/CFS program needs investigation and stay away from the medical stuff - use the funding stuff to ABT Associates and Emory University MIND-BODY Program. When you start talking about the methodology used (Fakuda, Reeves, etc.) to count sick bodies that becomes a scientific debate and NOT a reason for Congress to go looking - again - at the CDC/CFS program.

    For those who need background on the CDC/CFS history: www.oslersweb.com and read Hillary Johnson's brilliant summary titled "WHY" - as in why the CDC/CFS has done the unethical things they have done over the years since Incline Village.

    It hit me hard when I saw just how bad the situation is at the CDC all over. They had massive brain drain during the last several years of very senior researchers, low morale problems that continue, constant management change, constant organizational change - and none of it helped the CDC to get back to being a trustworthy health organization - or rather, THE CDC of years past.
    So, hit your own congress people and even send the head of the CDC (Thomas R. Frieden, MD, MPH --- txf2@cdc.gov -- and complain. Remember, YOU are the taxpayer and Frieden WORKS FOR YOU. Email him. I do. I've sent him all sorts of stuff including the links to Oslersweb so that he can see why the CFIDS sick are so mad. I got a response from his assistant but it was worthless. But, keep hitting them and the more of us that hit the better the possibility that Frieden might actually READ about CFIDS and what has been going on at the CDC with CFS resarch. We have no choice. We have to keep hitting and swinging - if not for us, then for our families and those coming in behind us. I continue to punch because of my siblings and 8 year old niece and 7 month old nephew (GENETICS!), not for me.
  8. UsedtobePerkyTina

    UsedtobePerkyTina New Member

    good post, puggles.

  9. illroy

    illroy Member

    That was a good post. I love to see passion for advocacy. :)

    The entire CDC needs to be worked over by Congress.

  10. byoungusa

    byoungusa New Member

    Unfortunatley the current state of the CDC and physicians in general is basically a coverup where CFIDS and fibro are concerned. The current pandemic and Yes I would classify it that, is either beyond the current technology or an envirormentally mediated condition that is even more pervasive than currently reported. I am just a typical american blue-collar worker, I worked in the semiconductor industry for over 25 years. I was closely followed with yearly physicals the first 10yrs. and every 6mos. the next 15 yrs. by vertue of the OSHA regs. due to the fact of continuous contact with heavy metals. I did not have a typical occupation but unforutnatley I have come to understand I have a all to common condition. And lest anyone think they are immune since they never worked in semiconductors, yes you do, since I will wager you come in contact with with the products of my labor at every stage of your day, alarm clock, cell phone, digital watch, automobile, computer, calculator, control panel on the machine you run, cash register you run, you name it, semiconductors are there. I know, Iknow, thats all we need, a conspiracy theory, well thats not what I'm saying, I just don't think its been in the govt. or industries best interest to really deal with all this. Until they found alternatives for asbestos, it wasn't in anybodies interest to stop the poisioning of workers and mesothelioma. I just resent alot that as long as I could drag myself out and work everything was A-ok, now, that I can't well, its just a mystery, accept it and shut-up.
  11. puggles

    puggles New Member

    Thomas R. Frieden, MD, MPH
    Complain to Senator Tom Coburn about CDC's waste of CFS funds. See below for his SUBMITATIP address.
    Senator Tom Coburn-Ranking Member of the Federal Financial Management Subcommittee

    172 Russell Senate Office Bldg. Washington, DC 20510
    Phone: 202-224-5754 Fax: 202-224-6008
    As Ranking Member of the Federal Financial Management Subcommittee I am working tirelessly to conduct effective and rigorous oversight of the federal government. Reckless and unsustainable spending is inexcusable, especially at a time when our nation is at war, and when major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are headed toward bankruptcy.

    I welcome feedback and suggestions from Americans and anyone around the world who interacts with the Federal government. You may contact my office by phone, fax, mail, or by email.
    I display the “Principles of Accountability” at all of the hearings to remind the audience and my fellow senators that taxpayers deserve nothing less than a government that is accountable for its actions and spending. The following principles guide my oversight work in the U.S. Senate.

    Tom Coburn, M.D.


    JUNE 2007
    CDC OFF CENTER-CDC Off Center - Dr. Coburn issues 100+ page oversight report on public health agency - The First in a Series of Oversight Reports on Federal Agencies
    --- A review of how an agency tasked with fighting and preventing disease has spent hundreds of millions of tax dollars for failed prevention efforts, international junkets, and lavish facilities, but cannot demonstrate it is controlling disease.


  12. puggles

    puggles New Member

    This article is about the Swine Flu numbers that the CDC has MADE UP to get Federal funding. Numbers were adjusted from 1,200 dead from Swine Flu to 4,000 dead OVERNIGHT to get attention and more money from the Congress. THIS IS HOW THEY WORK THE NUMBERS FOR CFIDS AS WELL: Read and think it through as it relates to CFIDS. Then Contact the CDC and Congress people and ask for investigation into the CDC/CFS program NOW>

    Superstar CBS Reporter Blows the Lid Off the Swine Flu Media Hype and Hysteria
    Posted by: Dr. Mercola


    November 24 2009 | 21,922 views - Two videos. One with Sharyl Attkisson of CBS news explaining what the CDC did about Swine Flu tracking and stopping the tracking in August. Numbers for true Swine Flu are extremely LOW in all states and many are NOT even FLU, but other upper resp. illnesses. In one state, only one percent of those tested had Swine Flu (H1N1).
    Sharyl Attkisson is a CBS News correspondent and investigative reporter. She’s covered Capitol Hill since February 2006 and has been a Washington-based correspondent there since January 1995. She was also part of the CBS news team that received the Edward Murrow Award in 2005 for overall excellence. Additionally, she received an Outstanding Investigative Journalism Emmy in 2002 for a series on the Red Cross.
    In case you didn't realize it, Sharyl Attkisson is the investigative reporter behind the groundbreaking CBS News study that found H1N1 flu cases are NOT as prevalent as feared.
    In fact, they’re barely on the radar screen.
    How did this startling information come about, and why is the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) painting a different picture entirely? I spoke directly with Sharyl Attkisson to find out.
    Two Videos
    The first video is an amazing interview I did with Sharyl about ten days ago and what the bulk of this article is based on
    The second video is brand new and was done at noon yesterday in which I was videoed in the CBS studio in downtown Chicago. Sharyl was gracious enough to invite me to be on with Dr. Bernadine Healty, the former direction of the NIH. We both were in agreement about the swine flu and opposed to the stance the CDC is taking, but we had different views on mammograms.
    Please also watch the second interview as it is very entertaining.
    Getting Started on the Swine Flu Trail
    Ms. Attkisson says:
    “The reason I looked into this is a couple of months ago, I got tips from three or four different segments of public healthcare, with folks telling me the CDC has recommended that they go ahead and stop testing for and counting swine flu cases.
    Each different entity that contacted me was concerned, thinking that this should not be happening. They really felt that it was necessary for the swine flu to continue to be tracked in some details. So I went about trying to find out why this decision was made and what the ramifications would be.
    … I started by contacting the CDC and the HHS and asking some basic questions. I felt like I pretty much got stonewalled with some of the information I really needed to get at, especially what I needed from the states data, and information on the rationale behind this decision to stop counting and testing for swine flu.”
    Because the CDC did not initially respond to Attkisson’s requests, she contacted all 50 states directly, asking for their statistics on state lab-confirmed H1N1 prior to the halt of individual testing and counting in July. She also asked states, one by one, to help explain the rationale behind the CDC’s decision to stop tracking H1N1 cases.
    Attkisson continues:
    “One of my good sources within the government said to me that they’re either trying to, in his opinion, over-represent the swine flu numbers or under-represent by not counting them anymore. He said, “You need to find out which it is.” And so to find out which it might be, I really wanted to see the data that the CDC had at the time it made the decision to quit counting the cases.”
    What Her Investigative Report Reveals
    If you listen to most media outlets and even to government agencies, you get the impression that virtually every person who has visited their physician with flu-like symptoms in recent months has H1N1, with no testing necessary because, after all, there's an epidemic.
    We are all being led to believe that every case diagnosed as “swine flu” or even as “flu-like illness” is, in fact, swine flu.
    But Attkisson’s investigation revealed a very different picture right from her first contact with individual states. She explains:
    “Across the country, state by state, they were testing [for H1N1] until CDC told them not to bother. They were testing, in general, the cases most likely to be believed to have been swine flu based on a doctor’s diagnosis of symptoms and risk factors such as travel to Mexico.
    These special cases were going to state labs for absolute confirmation with the best test -- not the so-called “rapid testing,” but the real confirmation test.
    Of those presumed likely swine flu cases out of approximately every hundred of what was tested, only a small fraction were actually swine flu. In every instance, perhaps the biggest number of cases that were swine flu was something like 30%. The smallest number was something like 2% or 3%.
    Maybe there’s one state where it was just 1%.
    The point is, of the vast majority of the presumed swine flu cases recognized by trained physicians, the vast majority were not flu at all. They weren’t swine flu or regular flu; they were some other sort of upper respiratory infection.”
    And here is the clincher that it seems the CDC just doesn’t want the American public to know …
    “The CDC explained that one of the reasons they quit counting was because of all the flu that’s out there, most are swine flu. Well, that’s true. Most of the flu that was out there was indeed swine flu, but they failed to say that most of the suspected flu was nothing at all. And I think that’s the caveat the public just didn’t know,” Attkisson explains.
    She gives even more striking examples of the numbers the investigative report revealed. For instance:
    In Florida, 83 percent of specimens that were presumed to be swine flu were negative for all flu when tested!
    In California, 86 percent of suspected H1N1 specimens were not swine flu or any flu; only 2 percent were confirmed swine flu.
    In Alaska, 93 percent of suspected swine flu specimens were negative for all flu types; only 1 percent was H1N1 flu.
    Freedom of Information and Getting the Truth Out
    It is not easy for journalists to access this type of information, and they often have to wait weeks, months or even years for information from the CDC and the FDA -- information that is readily available and supposed to be clearly public.
    Attkisson expands on the difficulties she faced in trying to get simple data regarding swine flu cases in the United States:
    “They [CDC’s public affairs] quit communicating with me when I pressed on why I couldn’t get certain information. They just wouldn’t answer my emails anymore. So I had to file a Freedom of Information request, which is usually my last choice because I know I was going into a deep black hole many times and I’ll never get an answer.
    But in this case, I got an interesting response on October 19 from the CDC when I had asked for some simple, public documents that would have been easy for them to obtain too quickly.
    Journalists are allowed to ask for expedited processing of their Freedom of Information request because, for obvious reasons, they’re working on a story that may have public impact or be of public interest. The agencies are not supposed to use the Freedom of Information Law to obstruct or delay the release of this information.
    This may be the first time I was denied that expedited processing from Freedom of Information that we’re entitled to as members of the press; a letter from HHS or Health and Human Services (the CDC is under HHS) said to me that one of the reasons they’re denying my expedited processing is because this is not a matter of “widespread and exceptional media or public interest.”
    In other words, the CDC doesn’t think these questions about swine flu prevalence and these other things that we’ve been asking are, at least in their opinion in this letter, not a matter of widespread and exceptional media or public interest.”
    Yet, while the CDC expressed that questions about swine flu prevalence were not a matter of widespread media or public interest, the President had declared the swine flu a national public health emergency!
    The inconsistencies at the CDC are nearly incomprehensible.
    The Ramifications of the Swine Flu Policy
    According to Attkisson’s CBS News study, when you come down with chills, fever, cough, runny nose, malaise and all those other "flu-like" symptoms, the illness is likely caused by influenza at most 17 percent of the time and as little as 3 percent! The other 83 to 97 percent of the time it's caused by other viruses or bacteria.
    So remember that not every illness that appears to be the flu actually is the flu. In fact, most of the time it's not.
    Curiously, the CDC still advises those who were told they had 2009 H1N1 (and therefore should be immune to getting it again) to get vaccinated unless they had lab confirmation.
    But because very few people have actually had a lab-confirmed case of H1N1 (and in most cases those people told they had swine flu probably did not), this means nearly everyone is still being advised to get the swine flu vaccine.
    Attkisson has been one of the few to speak out against this flawed system and point out the serious ramifications that come when a public health agency is secretive about their health data.
    Attkisson says:
    “From a public and journalistic standpoint, I believe the mistake comes when you don’t fully disclose to the public as you go and discover the mistakes. Try to disclose and fix things that come up.
    Everybody understands that there isn’t a perfect system, but I think you need to be upfront with them, explain what you’re doing, and explain what you’re discovering. If you’ve made a mistake or you feel like you need to correct something, say that, too, but don’t just try to keep information from the public.”
    I couldn’t agree more, and Attkisson’s CBS News report has stood out like a bright light of truth among all the clouds of misinformation.
    If you’d like to learn more about the report and its findings, you can read all the details in the past article CBS Reveals that Swine Flu Cases Seriously Overestimated.
    CONTACT: CDC: Lynn Armstrong/Katherine Norris - 404-639-7270 OR EMAIL CDC HEAD: Thomas R. Frieden, MD, MPH at txf2@cdc.gov and his assistant Lsalinas@cdc.gov.
  13. UsedtobePerkyTina

    UsedtobePerkyTina New Member

    Has anyone contacted this reporter to see if she is interested in the CDC not finding a retrovirus for twenty years that now we know exists?

    Seems she has an interest.

  14. spacee

    spacee Member

    do not leave the NIH out of the mix. I am quoting Dr. Cheney from his Public Relations article of October 9,2009 after he talks about finding patients with retroviruses and Elaine Defreitas work being assaulted in 1992...he says:

    "Left unfunded by senior administrators at the NIH and the CDC, the search of a retroviral link in CFS dissapated and was lost until Judy Mikovirts PhD, operating out of the independent WPI, revived the long search."

    Ok, after Thanksgiving, I am going to start sending this and the copy of my 1991 lab from the Cheney Clinic where I tested positive for a novel retrovirus to all the news media that I can come up with. (A friend at WPI Facebook found this link for me...my brain is so slow, I couldn't come up with it.)


    [This Message was Edited on 11/24/2009]
  15. puggles

    puggles New Member

    Sharyl Attkisson of CBS news

    I thought about contacting her and providing information on the CDC/CFS/Reeves and his contractors (ABT Assoc and Emory Univesity Mind-Body Program) and asking if she would be interested in running a story on the funding issues going on AND all the other issues WE all know about with Reeves, et al.

    So, I will hunt down her email and post it. Then if people would, please email her and ask for her investigative skills to be put to good use.
  16. UsedtobePerkyTina

    UsedtobePerkyTina New Member

    Go for it. I have a freelance writer I know interested. I spoke to her today. She said her interest is the toll on the life of CFS patients and concern over blood supply. She is pitching the story next week.

    Let you know.

  17. puggles

    puggles New Member

    I believe Dr. Mercola did a post on the dangers of Fluoride in the body. It was scary stuff. Search for it with Google. Gave me a good jolt and made me wonder about that stuff getting into the body via toothpaste as well.
    You could always sink a well (expensive) or drink bottled or filtered water.
  18. puggles

    puggles New Member

    There are a couple of idiots calling people names and it is not worth bothering, in my opinion to read or write. There always seems to be one moron wrecking things for people and in this case there is at least one moron if not two or three.
  19. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    When I was growing up in the late fifties, there was a big controversy about Fluoride. It was basically spearheaded by the John Birch Society, a very conservative anti government group.

    I have no idea if this group still exists or has anything to do with this movement but it would be interesting to find out.

    It is rather amusing to see it brought up again when there is not one shred of science based evidence that gives credence to fluoride being harmful.

    I would rather focus on more important issues like the XMRV.


    Edited to correct spelling errors and to delete a double negative. :D[This Message was Edited on 11/27/2009]
  20. UsedtobePerkyTina

    UsedtobePerkyTina New Member

    I don't know if the John Birch Society still exists, but a house in a neighboring city to mine has a John Birch Society sign in his yard.