yeast and estrogen dominance

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by ohmyaching, Aug 10, 2003.

  1. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    Scenario for Disaster

    As long as I can remember I was sick. The very
    first memory I have as a young child is of me
    walking hand and hand with my parents into the
    hospital. Ear aches, sore throats, bronchitis,
    pneumonia, asthma, allergies. When wasn’t I
    sick?
    I don’t know when I first received antibiotics. I
    do know that at one time all I had to do was go
    to the doctor and complain of being sick and
    they would give me antibiotics as a matter of
    routine to knock out any possible sickness. It
    never occurred to me or to them that the
    antibiotics could be causing the sickness, but we
    know now that antibiotics can make a person
    sick by throwing off the balance of how their
    system works. Antibiotics can help to kill the
    bacteria that makes us sick, but they also can kill
    helpful bacteria that we need to keep the yeast in
    our bodies from overwhelming our system.
    When these very strong antibiotics kill off the
    “good” bacteria the yeast can take advantage of
    this situation and greatly proliferate.
    Candida yeast can affect our hormone balance.
    Candida have receptor cites on their cell surfaces
    for progesterone. Some speculate that when
    progesterone is attached to yeast it cannot fit
    into the receptor sites in our bodies so that we
    do not get the progesterone into our system that
    we need. This causes a hormonal imbalance. It
    creates a scenario for disaster, by producing
    estrogen dominance. Yeast is not the only thing
    that causes estrogen dominance; poor eating
    habits, stress, and pollutants that act as
    xenoestrogens can also cause estrogen
    dominance. If this estrogen dominance is not
    corrected it can lead to any number of
    conditions. Dr. Lee’s books, “What Your
    Doctor May Not Tell You About
    Premenopause- p46” and “What Your Doctor
    May Not Tell You About Menopause” lists
    symptoms of estrogen dominance:
    endometriosis, autoimmune disease, asthma,
    allergy symptoms, menstrual problems, fatigue,
    conditions that mimic hypothyroidism, foggy
    thinking, adrenal exhaustion, to name a few. (He
    doesn’t just list these symptoms, but he often
    tells you why estrogen dominance causes these
    symptoms.)These symptoms are so much like
    CFS symptoms that I am inclined to believe that
    estrogen dominance is the cause of CFS and I
    would encourage everyone with CFS to read his
    books.
    The answer to solving these problems is not just
    to take progesterone (people, like me, with
    endometriosis need to be careful taking
    progesterone because progesterone can cause
    internal bleeding), but to find the proper
    hormonal balance, dietary balance,
    detoxification of pollutants and toxins and
    avoidance of stress that they individually need.
  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    This is very interesting, but I don't understand.....
    1) why does CFS cluster in an area if it is caused by estrogen? (I refer you to the book Osler's Web, which describes the way it appears in clusters)
    2) how do men get CFS if it is caused by estrogen?

    Thanks, Klutzo
  3. tansy

    tansy New Member

    causations like oestrgogen dominace. As Klutzo says this does not explain the clusters nor the males who go down with CFS.

    I too thought I was oestrogen dominant until I had saliva and blood tests done recently. My GP was shocked at how low my oestradiol levels were, so seems I was wrong.

    I do understand about (bad) oestrogens in the environment and how they can affect our own sex hormone levles, so I have no doubt they are not good for us.

    I believe we have all problems with levels of the essential neurotransmitters, hormones, and enzymes; that we would all benefit from addressing those.

    I've had CFS for over 2 decades now and during that time causes such as this have been brought up and claims made by practitioners that they have subsequently found a cure. If only it were true.

    Once we begin doing our own research we generally find those contributing factors that apply to us, by understanding them we put ourselves in a good position to help ourselves or decide what to discuss with our doctors.

    You have posted information that I feel sure will be relevant to some female board users, those who have not already heard of Dr Lee will now know where to go for futher information.

    We need lots of relevant info, and even though some board members may not agree with the content, we still need to see all that is available.

    Thanks

    Tansy

  4. tandy

    tandy New Member

    theory of estogen dominance applys to us with Fibro??
    I have FM,Raynauds,IBS,Endometriosis and now I'm testing poss. for possible lupus?? I guess I best just get the book and read for myself! I've seen this title mentioned alot here!! Thanks :)
  5. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    Wish I had an answer for your questions. Everything I read about estrogen dominance seems to fit. The symptoms fit. Estrogen dominance is not just a problem of too much estrogen, it is also a problem of hormonal imbalance and resulting illness. You know that CFS is not an simple disease. Estrogen dominance is not a simple disease either.(Another similarity) You can have estrogen dominance and still have normal hormone levels because the hormones, although being produced, are not being used (for example something maybe blocking receptor cites)and hormone level tests can't tell you that. Here are some examples of causes of estrogen dominance.

    Estrogen dominance can be caused by
    Stress-
    Glucocorticoids are secreted by the adrenal cortex. An important class of glucocorticoids
    are the cortisols. Cortisol is produced from progesterone. It is possible to have symptoms
    of both too much cortisol (caused by stress which keeps our adrenals functioning at a
    heightened response level) and too little cortisol (caused by the inability to maintain
    adequate production of this hormone in response to this heightened demand). This takes
    it’s toll on progesterone levels as the body uses more and more progesteroneto meet the
    demand for cortisol. This can create a hormone imbalance that feeds on itself setting the
    stage for estrogen dominance and all of the problems it causes. This may eventuallly lead
    to adrenal exhaustion.
    Too much fat and sugar in the diet-
    A diet high in sugar promotes estrogen dominance. Most of this sugar is turned into fat.
    (Fat cells produce estrogen.). Cortisol sends glucose (blood sugar) flooding into the cells
    which may make you feel great after the initial rush of glucose into the cells, but twenty or
    so minutes later your blood sugar level falls and then your body will want more glucose to
    get your blood sugar and energy back up. A consistently high sugar diet can set up a
    pattern of struggling to keep your energy up and your weight down. High levels of sugar
    in the blood stimulates the release of adrenaline which stimulates the release of cortisol
    which in turn causes a craving for quick calories which increase the blood sugar, which
    stimulates the release of adrenaline which stimulates the release of cortisol.....and on and
    on it can go.
    Xenoestrogens-
    Xenoestrogens are chemical pollutants (found in most plastics and many pesticides - an example might be dioxin), that we’ve have contaminated our environment
    with. Xenoestrogens are very potent estrogens- much more potent than our normal
    estrogens. We are surrounded by them. Our bodies use these estrogens and they throw our hormone balance out of
    balance.
    Another estrogen pollutant we are exposed to would be steroids used to fatten livestock.

    Now lets just take stress for example. If stress is causing estrogen dominance you have to decrease the stress in your life because it does no good to treat estrogen dominance with progesterone if there is still too much stress and you also have to treat adrenal exhustion to build up your adrenals and balance your hormones. If damage to your adrenals has resulted you may have to live with that. There may be other expressions of estrogen dominance that need treating as well. There are lots of symptoms caused by estrogen dominance. (Endometriosis is one example. I've mentioned before that men receiving estrogen supplements have developed endometriosis. I have endo and after reading Dr. Lee's book I can tell you that I could be their poster child. My life reads like his book. As a side note The Endometriosis Assoc. has stated that women with endo should not take progesterone. One more problem to add to dealing with my estrogen dominance.)Estrogen dominance is not a simple disease. Dr. Lee says that treating illness shouldn't be- see a symptom, give a drug, but it should be a healthy way of living. As for men, who's to say that they are not being influenced by estrogen dominance. Dr. Lee says he believes they are. He sees it as immasculinazation (did I spell thid right?)of men and development of feminine features.
  6. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    I have seen my symptoms go from bad to worse over the years, perhaps as the damage of estrogen dominance has built up. The time to treat these symptoms it would seem is at the very first sign of estrogen dominance. If (and that's a very big if)it can prevent this gradual decline then it will be worth it.
  7. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    This may not have answered my questions, but it does explain why I feel better on progesterone drops.
    My estradiol level when last tested was only 19. However, I always thought I was estrogen dominant because of the way I was built.
    It seems we can't avoid a lot of these things, unless we are complete vegans (Not healthy for someone with Metabolic Syndrome like me) or we buy only free range animal products ($$$).
    The thing that most impresses me is the connection to adrenal fatigue, which I believe to be a key to CFS/FMS. Adrenal fatigue can be caused by other things too, so there are many pathways to ending up in the same place. While your path to it may have been estrogen dominance, someone else's trigger would be different.
    Makes sense to me,
    Klutzo
  8. tandy

    tandy New Member

    I found the answer to my very own Question!!! alright!!
    Nope would'nt apply to FM....possible adrenal/glandular?
    Still researching........so much to these DD...no wonder the Docs have'nt had any luck coming up with answers!!
    Hormonal issues are something to consider but it goes way beyond that~ Just my thoughts..........
  9. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    i used the progesterone cream for four years because i thought i was oestrogen dominant but it never did make me feel better in any way at all !
    i kept using it because it did make my periods regular.

    i have stopped taking it for 2 months and have started to trial dhea and i feel better on this than i ever did on progesterone cream.

    it could be really wrong of me but i currently feel very sceptical of the theory that oestrogen is to blame for so many problems !
    also i used to be veggie or vegan for about thirty out of 33 years and i was more unhealthy as i was deficient in protein.
    i can't see any proof that this DD is connected, the symptoms fit yes but they are so wide that they fit lots of illnesses.
    also why then do so many of us get worse in middle age ? when our oestrogen is diminishing ? am i very confused ?


    pinkquartz
    [This Message was Edited on 08/12/2003]
  10. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    When I say that I believe chronic fatigue
    syndrome is caused by estrogen dominance it’s
    because so many of the symptoms I see reported
    with chronic fatigue syndrome on this board can
    also be attributed to estrogen dominance. You
    could say that estrogen dominance is a syndrome
    itself because not only is it a cause of illness (an
    excess of estrogen that causes hormonal
    imbalance, as is the case when potent xenoestrogens are
    present), but it is also a symptom of illness (a
    disproportionate amount of estrogen resulting
    from hormone imbalance) that can present itself
    as any of a large number of symptoms.
    At menopause your estrogen levels can drop
    below normal and yet you can still be estrogen
    dominant because your progesterone levels can
    drop down to nearly nothing. If you have more
    estrogen than progesterone you may be estrogen
    dominant. In otherwords you need balance. I
    hope people can see outside the box. They tend
    to view estrogen as a woman’s problem, but we
    all need hormonal balance. When our hormones
    are out of balance then sickness can result. For
    example in the case where too much estrogen is
    the culprit you may have symptoms such as PMS
    and bloating. Perhaps the doctor gives you drugs
    for the PMS or bloating. If the real problem is
    estrogen dominance you may have temporary
    relief with the drugs but the drugs are not
    solving the root of your problem-hormonal
    imbalance. If you continue as you have been
    doing you don’t get any better and you may
    progress to other problems caused by estrogen
    dominance such as extreme fatigue due to
    adrenal exhaustion. In the mean time the drugs
    may themselves also cause problems. The longer
    or the more intense the hormonal imbalance the
    more damage it is likely to cause. You can take
    progesterone and that might help with the excess
    estrogen , but if you’re still doing things that
    cause your hormones to be imbalanced you may
    continue to be ill. Correcting estrogen
    dominance may also not be enough because once
    one hormone (or more) is out of balance it can
    throw your whole system out of balance. For
    example Dr. Lee lists gallbladder disease as a
    symptom of estrogen dominance. This
    gallbladder disease may result in serious
    problems with your gall bladder. In the case
    where estrogen dominance is a symptom rather
    than a cause of illness there may be hormonal
    imbalance due to a lack of other hormones or
    something blocking the proper functioning of
    hormones such as the yeast mentioned above
    that has resulted in disproportionate hormonal
    levels with estrogen being in greater proportion,
    although not necessarily in excess. Just replacing
    one hormone such as progesterone isn’t going to
    work where the whole system is imbalanced.
    You often need to change your whole lifestyle to
    promote balance. Finding and correcting these
    problems is not easy because there are a whole
    host of associated illnesses.
    I do believe viruses play a part in CFS especialy
    in the case of herpes. Whether the herpes virus is
    a cause of estrogen dominance or an effect I am
    still trying to figure out. As a cause, herpes
    viruses appears to have an affect on cortisol
    levels which could result in estrogen dominance.
    As an effect maybe estrogen dominance lowers
    immunity levels to the point where these viruses
    are reactivated. There is some discussion that
    these viruses don’t flare up in normal healthy
    people. Mycoplasms probably play a role too in
    CFS.
  11. tansy

    tansy New Member

    which I have copied and posted for further reading, brain's going round in circles at the moment trying to identify and address all the relevant problems.

    Oestrogen dominance well may be repsonsible for health problems, but like Pinkquartz I feel that even if relevant in the past it's not now. My progesterone levels are fine for the perimenopause, where I am now, but my ostradiol is too low even for the menopause.

    Dr Roby identifies the hormone imbalances the other way around, if you compare his theories with those of Dr Lee it just leaves most of us totally confused. Dr Roby uses sublingual progesterone drops not to boost this hormone but to prevent it blocking the oestrogen.

    To be honest I don't fit directly into either of their theories, my mother and sister have never had an easy time with their sex hormones either but neither have cfs, fm, nor anything like them. When I had more regular cycles the changes in hormone levels played havoc with my cfs +++, so I knew they were contributing to my symptoms and also that my body could no longer cope with any stresses including this one.

    I do think this is an area that ought to be researched but still do not believe it applies to everyone. We end up with everything out of kilter, since my further downhill spiral 5 years ago it became obvious that no system was functioning properly. My sex hormones are part of this but by no means the whole story.

    Maca root has appeared on this board recently and this would seem to offer a better safe balancing act on the sex hormones than anything else I've come across. What's more patients don't need a doctor's prescrition nor expensive tests to try this out.

    I do feel we need to supplement deficiencies (neurotransmitters, HPA axis, enzymes, nutritional, hormones) but must aim at getting a good balance so we don't make things worse. We need to address hypercoagulation and pathogens if they're relevant. We need to help our bodies clear out toxins and ensure we eat the diet that's best for us individually. We need to treat candida and check for allergens. some will find their answers in just one or two others, others will find all these, and perhaps more, are contributing to their current problems. It frequently boils down to the chicken/egg scenario, which came first? Too often one or two of the subsequences can be seen as the sole cause.

    When doctors/practioners who claim to know the cause of cfs and fm have supposedly high recovery rates, it's important we check out their perception of these DDs. If it fits our experiences then it's worth seeing them or following their protocol. If not we can still learn from what they have to say but we need to look further afield too.

    Cheers

    Tansy